by Ian Khan | Feb 10, 2021 | Ian Khan Blog, Ian Khan's Blog, Podcast
Ignacio Peña, Singularity University, XPRIZE, Wharton with Futurist Ian Khan
In this episode, i speak with Ignacio Peña
Bio
Ignacio Peña is a strategist, an innovator, an advisor and an international speaker. He founded Surfing Tsunamis, a catalyst of abundance, inclusion and regeneration based on the power of transformational innovation. Recent initiatives range from putting in motion Open Space (the youth space program), designing a 35 acre innovation park in the heart of a mega-city and proposing a global Inclusion Moonshot to G20 leaders, to supporting senior leaders to reinvent global organizations and helping highly disruptive entrepreneurs to launch their startups. Ignacio catalyzed the first major Singularity University event in Latin America, co-founded a leading angel investor fund in Argentina, with a portfolio of over 20 disruptive global startups (one of which is already a multi-billion dollar unicorn), and created the first MOOC focused on technology entrepreneurship in Latin America.
Previously, Ignacio worked for over 15 years as strategic consultant for leading corporations, governments, NGOs and associations. He was Partner and Managing Director of The Boston Consulting Group based in Brazil and at Booz & Co. He executed over 100 projects in more than a dozen sectors, was involved in M&A transactions worth over US$5B and has deep experience in strategy, innovation, corporate development and large-scale transformations.
Ignacio is Lecturer at the Wharton School and was selected Bold Innovator at XPRIZE in 2016, when he designed a global prize to make nutritious food ultra-affordable everywhere. He published articles in a range of international media, including the Huffington Post and the Financial Times. He holds an MSc in Economics from UCA, an MBA from the Wharton School, an MA in International Studies from the University of Pennsylvania.
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Full Transcript : Hi friends this is Ian Khan and you’re listening to the Ian Khan show. This is an aftershock special episode and I’m speaking with a co contributor to the recent book aftershock. I’m speaking with Ignacio Pena today and he’s a strategist and investor and international speaker strategic advisor to senior leaders, startups, corporations and governments. He’s also the founder and CEO of surfing tsunamis a catalyst of abundance, inclusion and regeneration through high impact initiatives and transformational innovation NAS who is also lecturer at Wharton and faculty at Singularity University.
Let’s speak with Ignacio Ignacio Pena Welcome to the Ian Khan show a very warm welcome and you are in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Tell us how is life down there because I am freezing here in Canada. beautiful weather. Very happy to be here with you. Excellent. So Ignacio, just for our viewers. This conversation is happening because you and I both are part of Aftershock this amazing book that john Schroeder put together 50 other futurists from the world are part of this. They have written their thoughts ideas about Alvin Toffler, Heidi Toffler, their book Future Shock, and really what the future is all about unprecedented change. And we’re living in that era of unprecedented change today. 2020 has been marked as the year off, I’m marking it as a Europe of COVID-19. And this is one of the biggest changes that I believe has occurred in humanity. Let’s talk about Toffler, let’s talk about the future. Let’s talk about things that we can change and things we should look forward to in the future. Tell me a little bit about yourself. I’ve read your article in the book. And the book starts off with Where there is no vision the people perish. Proverbs 2918 that’s the start off your chapter. Tell us your relationship with change. Fantastic. Let me tell you a little bit about myself. And the way I see the future. Then I studied economics, I worked for 15 years in strategy consulting firms at Booz Allen Hamilton and then for 2030 years at the Boston Consulting Group based in Brazil, leading the strategy practice area in Latin America and working for that period with about 100 in 100 project for large corporate clients focused mostly on on growth strategies. Then the last 10 years, I came back to George and Tina and I’ve been working focused on innovation. Basically, I came back to India, so the country in very bad shape, and that’s myself, okay, how can I get back? How can I contribute? If I don’t do that? Why would expect anybody else to do it? Because I’m in a privileged position. So for several years, I’ve worked for free on trying to find an answer worries hope for a country like Argentina, where is hope for a region like Latin America and the Caribbean? And basically, the answer that I came up with was it suddenly it’s not in raw materials, hope, I think that that faces makes a massive tsunami of change, like climate change, aging population, fast pace automation comes from the massive technology revolution that we are seeing unfold, powered by exponential technologies like artificial intelligence, mobile, telecommunications, synthetic biology, free printing, face technology, things like this. And basically, what I saw was that the cost of innovation has fallen dramatically, and access to global markets has increased and today’s accessible by anyone, every everywhere. So basically, what I saw was that there was an opportunity to catalyze a better future for Latin America. And and also, I think that is applicable for the world, I see the opportunity for a future of abundance, inclusion and regeneration, so dramatically improving our standard of living eradicating poverty and creating a more inclusive society and turning the clock back on environmental destruction. I am basically I’ve been working the basket that 10 years to catalyze that future by transforming and helping to transform a Latin American region of innovation, and also by working to activate the industries of the future. But I think that many of the challenges that America faces today are also faced by other Western countries like like the United States and Europe, I think that we have a massive opportunity ahead. And we’re really not tackling it in a proper way. I think that we should really be bolder in terms of embracing the change that is coming. And basically, in terms of what we see today, you were mentioning the COVID crisis. I agree with you it is a significant challenge. But but it’s only a prologue of the change that is coming our way. I think it’s a perfect case for future shock. I think that change is unfolding at a faster pace than we can recognize or actually adapt to. And this is, I think, a case of Future Shock. And I would argue that the way out of users are the antidote for a future show is hope and empathy and and sort of a bold vision that allows us to come out of those holes, serve those tsunamis that are coming our way and build a better future together. Incredible. Thank you so much, that really summarizes a lot of things and helps it ends Stand where you’ve come from now you’ve also been part of X PRIZE you you have a few initiatives that are on your website as well. Tell us about that. Yeah. So basically in this 10 years as a catalyst, I’ve been doing lots of things I invested in 25 startups together with friends and we, I mean, out of that we already have one unicorn and others that may become unicorns. I help policymakers to mean design strategies of how to turn one Osiris into a hub for innovation, entrepreneurship and technology and faculty at Singularity University. I helped singularity to do some of the first events in Latin America and internationally Actually, I’m also lecturer at Wharton. And I’m basically do a course together with a friend and a professor from Wharton called no Kapoor, we do a course on technology, entrepreneurship, and innovation in Latin American in Argentina, and Chile now, specifically, and now I’m an advisor, also to startups and to other corporations. And I did work with with experts. Basically, I gathered together a group of 35 people, we all put some money. And we basically work together with XPrize to design a concept that I then scale to another level in a proposal for the G 20. And the concept was basically the abundance games which appear in a global competition to basically put the power of innovation at the service of the most vulnerable by catalyzing innovations that would make fresh, nutritious food affordable everywhere. But then not not just food, but also other concepts. So with the sign that concept, it hasn’t been turned into a reality yet. But as I mentioned, I later took that concept and presented it an even bolder idea, which was the inclusion moonshot for the mean, during the Z 20. organization here in Buenos Aires, unfortunately, it didn’t turn out into a reality, but I keep working on it. Yeah. So basically, I see an opportunity to pull the power of innovation at the service of this patient of inclusion, abundance, inclusion and regeneration, you talk a lot about and you just mentioned it as well, you talk about hope and empathy. So let’s talk about that. You know, today, we are definitely look at technology as a big enabler to do many things, whether it’s, you know, utilizing the power of data, and then doing something with AI technology, blockchain chain technology, whatever technology to extract value from data, we can look at automation, we’re looking at so many different things that are hopefully planned, many entrepreneurs are working on it. You know, you mentioned the unicorn and unicorns and stuff. What about hoping empathy? Do you believe that technology and the fact that future sharp, the rapid change of things is lacks empathy and hope? I think that doesn’t necessarily lack empathy and hope? When you see, for example, Elon Musk, creating SpaceX and Tesla, I think his basic premise or question was, what is the most positive thing or contribution that AI can do for humanity. And that has led to amazing results. And I would argue that is sort of the purpose driven, Human Centered sort of approach is that I think we should have I think that we should not fall into sort of idolatry of technology as technology will save us think that technology offers us incredible tools. And I would argue sort of the paintings and the brushes that we need to paint a better future. But in order to make a masterpiece of the future, I think that we have to put, we have to have a human centered you. And if you look at me, in a very pragmatic view, at work innovation community is doing right now, I think that in a way it is doing that, when, for example, we see design thinking, which is an empathy driven sort of methodology, a flourish. So I think that it’s there. But I think that we could put it more in the center, and we could translate it also into public policies and into bolder patience. I think that he could also be more at the center of sort of corporations that are acquired large corporations, which I think that by large, have have lost sight of their purpose and need to rethink their purpose in the new context. In the next decade, we’re going to see more change that humanity has ever seen, unless you step back and sort of you think about how this creation, this corporation can be useful for people and can really improve lives in the most positive way, I think that it’s unlikely that you’re going to find the strength to renew that company. So at any rate, it’s empathy and hope a but within sort of the market driven societies. I think that the possibilities there, the reality is there. But but I think we I mean, we could have I mean, if we want to step out of sort of fear, a place of fear and sort of lack of hope. We need to think about how we can be useful for others and also touch base with the fact that there are people that are in a much worse position that we are, so people are afraid of coming out, for example of their houses fine, I understand that I think we should stay home and be safe. But at the same time, we should remember that, for example, the policies that are lockdown policies that we’re implementing are expected to increase the number of hunger deaths these days. From 150 million to 265 million 430 million people are going to die for from hunger only this year due to loose economic policies. And I would argue that, that if we looked at this with empathy and we thought about those people, then we would probably look for solutions that take those people into consideration and Modi in a better place. So you’ve said that 135 million people across the world are going to die because of hunger this year in 2020 135 million, an additional 130 5 million. So the expectation is it will go from 130 million to 265. Approximately, let’s start with 130. The lower point 130 million, we’re also living in the era of COVID-19, 2020, we cannot ignore it COVID-19 has been everywhere. And although it’s a pandemic, that’s claiming a lot of lies, I think worldwide, the toll is around 150, less than 200,000, isn’t it? America is at 80,000 right now, plus the others from Europe, you know, 150,000, approximately, and the coverage that COVID-19 is getting is it has taken over everybody’s life. We all are checking the News, the news is talking about COVID-19 24. Seven, how how can we even compare that with 135 million lives that are lost every year? But we don’t hear about it? And why is that? I mean, if you look at the massive problems that humanity is facing things like climate change, like aging population, I would argue sort of drug addictions, I mean, all these things have to do with selfishness that way they generate or too much debt in the world has to do with a generation that has sort of, in a way mortgage the future without consideration for the next generation, right. So everything is valid in order to optimize your present. And as indeed, it has been doing that for 90 years. And the results have been horrendous. Yeah, a way to come out of that is to think about our children, and to think about, okay, how can we leave a better future for them? I would, I would argue that that sort of empathy. And when we think about sort of hunger, as you were saying, We’re not talking about that, I would, I would argue that that’s lack of empathy. Yeah. Yeah. Like, oh, they’re, they’re dying, but they’re far away. And it’s not okay. You know, it’s not okay. You also talk about the concept of air. I really like it. Tell our viewers a little bit about your concept of air. Yes. So I mean, in a time of crisis, we all feel sort of suffocating. It’s like, a thing that I would argue that humanity needs Air and Air is abundance, inclusion and regeneration. And it connects back to what you were saying, people without a vision shall perish. I think this is something that we known for 1000s of years. And today, we’re lacking this vision, we’re lacking sort of the Apollo program kind of mindset of let’s go for the moon. But let’s go for the moon in terms of creating a better society create a better society, not by going to socialism, or things that have failed. But by using the power of innovation to create this future of abundance, inclusion and regeneration in terms of abundance, we have an opportunity to make a step change in productivity, and basically unlock growth engines that can add three to 5% growth per year. And if you take one example, artificial intelligence, I mean, it’s supposed to mean has the potential to add 1% of GDP growth per year for the coming years 1.2% that compares to 0.3% of the steam engine. And so it’s several times more powerful than the steam engine. And it makes sense because I mean, the steam engine basically allowed us to augment our muscle that artificial intelligence will help us to augment our brains, right? So add to that the possibility of digital services of telework on a massive scale. Add to that things like intrapreneur innovation add to that electric mobility in renewable energies, synthetic biology, and so for industry 4.0 and you have the possibility to create a future of abundance. Yeah, then let’s take inclusion. In terms of inclusion, we could make basic necessities several times cheaper than than what they are today. So take food for example, imagine the impact that for example, alternative proteins is going to have which require much less land much less water than traditional agriculture is going to have in terms of making meet and basic commodities, food commodities more affordable. Or imagine, for example, creating applications that would allow I mean, most of the people that have hungry today are smallholder farmers in Africa or Asia. Imagine creating artificial intelligence applications or applications in smartphones that will be accessible to these people that allow them to apply permacultural techniques like having an assistant that teaches them how to walk them step by step to create a sort of to apply these these techniques that we know can produce abundance of food, even in harsh environments, so that they can multiply their yields without having tractors or fertilizers or things like this and in terms of regeneration, if you think about the power of renewables, solar win. But then also compact fusion, for example, combat nuclear fusion, if you think about the power of bioplastic. So we have the possibility to actually turn the clock back and heal them by when I mean electric cars today are already cheaper if you don’t take the perspective of total car ownership, total cost of ownership are cheaper than conventional cars, and they’re going to become much cheaper. So this vision of air is possible is just that there are massive resistances to this change. And sometimes there is also the lack of strategic planning and sort of a productive road to make those things happen. I think Ignacio also mentioned that, you know, you’re an investor and you work with startup companies. And I really believe the future is in the hands of companies and innovators that are solving some big problems with the simplest of solutions, right? That’s I mean, simplicity is the key. But it’s also addressing these problems that nobody’s looking at. You also mentioned a little bit of that in, in your chapter and aftershock where you’re talking about technologies, such as 5g technologies in Africa that are making a change on the ground in Latin America, tell us a little bit about what are you seeing happening in the startup ecosystem, generally, not just as an investor, but as an innovator yourself and as an investor as well, like, what is going on there? Well, if you look at there’s a global startup revolution taking place. And basically we’re seeing sort of innovation come out of Silicon Valley, and spread throughout the United States, we have seen the emergence of several sort of startup ecosystems in places like New York or in Colorado or in Miami, there’s also a new ecosystem, there are many places that were throughout the United States where this is happening, but also outside outside of the US. So clearly, in Israel, this began I mean, early Israel has been sort of a an early starter in this. But then, if you look at China, for example, to a Chinese is, has a venture capital industry that is similar to the US. And this has happened over the course of 10 years. And thinking is happening, although I am sad to say that a smaller scale, in Latin America, I mean, Latin America, the venture capital ecosystem has multiplied is growing at 100% per year today is at about a $4 billion, the potential is four $400 billion per year. And we already have clear demonstrations of sort of the the potential of the ecosystem to create value at a large scale. So we have for example, Mercado Libre, which is worth around $40 billion, and basically, is a company out of Wuhan Osiris, that when people come to the water, students come to see this, they can believe it. It’s really, really a massive company. And they’re just starting, or if you look at, for example, so the logic, a company that I’m collaborating with, I helped to sort of do their friend to do some of their first rounds and an investor also, and then they basically, and they’re three blocks away from my house here in Palermo. And basically, they they created satellites cost hundreds of 1000s of dollars instead of hundreds of millions of dollars. And they’ve been doing that this for several years. They were very good. I think that’s something like 12 satellites in space, but they’re creating a constellation of over 200 satellites in space to provide high resolution imagery of every point on the earth. Yeah, near real time. So basically, what we’re seeing is that even in sort of deep tech spaces, it is possible to innovate from a remote places in economic environments like Argentina, so if it can be done in Argentina can be done anywhere. Yeah, excellent. And I think that gives the opportunity for emerging countries to rethink their position in the world. I would argue that we’re seeing this happening in China. If you look at sort of the growth engines that I was mentioning there, I would say there are 10 growth chains, like things like e commerce, like mobile payments, artificial intelligence, we say this, renewables, you see that China has been very strategically taking an unfair share of each of industry industries, due to strategic foresight. And I think that it’s very important that the rest of the world sort of catches up with this mindset and begins to claim their share of the future, putting the future on top of the past. So giving priority to the future rather than the past. I want to talk a little bit about how digital transformation and we’ve been hearing digital transformation for years. I mean, it’s unbelievable sometimes to think that we’re still using so much paper in industries or there’s so much inefficiency in many different industries from accounting to banking to health care, name it, there’s inefficiency in the system, no matter what technologies such as, say blockchain are pushing the limit a little bit to help us accelerate or a very simple example is just digital, you know, conferencing, web conferencing, many people are now jumping on board and people are working remote. So this this whole era of digital revolution is now being accelerated because humanity is being pressured or humanity’s being pushed in a certain direction by COVID-19, especially in 20 2020. Tell our viewers, give us your piece on what digital transformation should mean like, should companies jump into digital solutions? Can we trust digital solutions, many startups are creating new platforms and stuff, I want our viewers to understand that there’s a sea of solutions out there, and it’s time to jump into it. Absolutely, there are people who think that rises will be sort of an opportunity to go back to the past. And I think that it’s on the contrary, in every three, one of the fields that I mentioned, what we’re seeing is sort of the future a coming faster than than before. So if you see, for example, the share of ecommerce over retail sales in the US, we’re seeing a massive jump, if we see telework, I mean, we see soon the platform that we’re using multiplied by 30, the number of users in less than six months. So we’re seeing these in a VC renewables, they’re not taking such a big hit as, as fossil fuels, if we see automation is actually accelerating the demand for sort of electric cars. And I mean, in all these areas, we’re seeing sort of the future and a plane at fast forward speed. Okay. So I think that it’s if the case was there, in the past, it’s only grown bigger. But I would argue that that digital transformation is really probably not the best the best concept we did a course a few years back in Miami with several owners and CEOs of some of the largest groups in Latin America. And we spoke about sort of disruptive innovation, but also digital transformation. And when we saw when we were discussing digital transformation, I would say that the energy level was lower versus when when we think in terms of techniques and sort of disruptive innovation. And I think that is the problem with digital transformation is that it’s maybe not bold enough in the sense that sometimes people take digital transformation for as being a Oh, I’ll do the same thing as in the past, but I’ll do it in a digital channel, and then you’re not really getting it, what you need to think about is that your entire industry and the boundaries of your industry are going to be redefined. And you have to sort of look at your the playing field in a new way and suddenly take into consideration that digital is taking over the world. I mean, take an example. ecommerce, take another example, digital payments. This is just beginning. But it’s I mean, it’s going to explode also realize that sometimes emerging countries, even in Africa are ahead of developing countries in this space. So for example, Kenya is ahead of the US in terms of the penetration of mobile payments relative to GDP, China is way ahead of the US in terms of mobile payments. And this also allows us to have more synergy about the fact that this is coming. So first of all, we have to realize that this is coming in a huge way. It’s coming faster than than what we imagined. And you need to take digital transformation in a sort of a disruptive way in a in a way that is very fundamental and totally redefined the way that you work and centered on the idea that software is eating the world and this technology, exponential technologies allow us to redefine all the industries. So if you’re not going to be disrupting, you’re going to be disrupted. Absolutely. If you’re not disrupting you’re going to be disrupted. So we’re out of time. I really appreciate you jumping on board on the Ian Khan show. Tell us where our viewers and listeners can find you. If you have a website. My website is suffering genomics.com and you can also find me in my email address is a P and a dot A Ignacio IGN a [email protected] all right pena [email protected]. Ignacio, thank you so much. Stay safe. And I hope you’re able to join us again in the future. I really appreciate your time. Goodbye from us and enjoy your time. And thank you so much. Thank you and I look forward to another opportunity and it was a big pleasure. You’re very welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Ignacio. Hey, friend, this is Ian Khan. If you like what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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by Ian Khan | Feb 10, 2021 | Ian Khan Blog, Ian Khan's Blog, Podcast
Cat Tully, Founder School of International Futures, with Futurist Ian Khan
In this episode, i speak with Cat Tully, an accomplished Futurist and Educator.
Bio
Cat Tully is the founder of SOIF, the School of International Futures. Cat has extensive experience as a practitioner, helping governments, civil society and businesses to be more strategic, more effective, and better prepared for the future. She is motivated by a focus on social justice and the importance of multi-stakeholder approaches to the challenges of the 21st century world.
Prior to setting up SOIF, Cat was Strategy Project Director at the UK Foreign and Commonwealth Office, and Senior Policy Adviser in the Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. Before working in government, she worked in strategy and international relations across the not-for-profit and business sectors, including Christian Aid, Technoserve, and Procter and Gamble. Cat has also worked for the UN, the EU Commission and the World Bank.
Cat has degrees from Cambridge and Princeton Universities. She is a trustee of the Foundation for Democracy and Sustainable Development, a global board member of Academics Stand Against Poverty, a member of United Nations Learning Advisory Council for the 2030 Agenda, and a member of the Advisory Group of the British Foreign Policy Group.
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Full Transcript : Hi friends this is Ian Khan and you’re watching the Ian Khan show today. It’s a special episode of The aftershock series where I interview a co contributor to the recent book aftershock. In today’s episode, I’m speaking with Cat Tully, who’s the founder of the School of International futures, running strategic foresight projects and retreats across the world with 600 alumni in 50 countries. Let’s speak with Cat.
Cat welcome to the Ian Khan show. I’m so excited to have you here today. First of all, you’re incredible. Your work is incredible. And also you are a contributor to aftershock. Now, let me give a quick overview to our listeners and our viewers on what aftershock is 50 plus futurists off today’s era came together and wrote their thoughts and ideas about the book, Future Shock, written by Alvin Toffler, one of the greatest visionaries of the world and in the past, and he wrote a book called Future Shock 50 years ago in which he predicted the future talked about tomorrow talked about the current era today. And here we are talking about him in this book, thank you for being on the show. How are you? I’m very well, thank you very much. Thank you so much for inviting me to join you. It’s great for me, thank you. It’s our pleasure. Let’s do this help us understand what you do. Who are you as a futurist and and what domains Do you work in? Because your bio is so impressive, I don’t know which parts to touch in which not to? Let’s hear it from you? Well, first of all, I’ll probably say that I wouldn’t call myself a futurist. And I’ve been lucky to spend quite a lot of my career working with futurists, but I’ve worked mainly in strategy and decision making, and particularly in governments. So I’m really interested in how you use insights from futurists about thinking about the future to make better decisions today, and especially in the government space, whether it’s national security, proliferation, climate change inequality, how can we actually create better policy decisions as governments as communities, at the city level, but also at the UN level. So that’s very much my area of focus. I used to work in the UK government, in the Prime Minister’s strategy in it, and in the Foreign Office, policy planning staff, which is the equivalent of your State Department. And as a result of that, I’ve always been really interested in the interplay of looking internationally, and about how the world is changing geopolitically, but also with developing countries, and how that interplays with our experience as nations, as people in the UK, people living in the States, and how those two levels work together, incredible. And there’s so much happening when you look at governments globally. I mean, you’ve touched on something so incredible that it touches all of us, we all are somehow connected to a government or some government, because we use their services, we are part of a country, and so on and so forth. I do a lot of work with governments, myself, I work really closely with the government of the United Arab Emirates. And that’s Dubai, that’s Abu Dhabi and other seven emirates altogether for our listeners who don’t know, and looking at how they run things, and how things are run in the West, how things are run in Estonia, there’s a huge difference in how governments are run. And one of the things that’s very challenging, or I think we need to maybe could create more clarity is government is not necessarily the people who are elected and who are running things right now. But it’s also that framework, the foundation that has been laid down for the last 50 or 100 years. And that’s kind of I always look at things in you know, in that way that government not necessarily is the ruling party right. Now, let’s talk a little bit about strategy we are living in 2020 2020. year is the year of COVID-19 is the year of disruption, where all business models have fallen flat on their face where all strategies have gone through the window. What are you seeing as the disruption that COVID-19 has caused the pandemic has caused from where you see things. So I think that there are different tribes, and how people look at what COVID-19 actually means for the status quo. There’s a group of people that see this as being a huge disruption, the big defining moment of the 21st century that probably is going to take us into the 21st century, it’s the end of the 20th century, beginning genuine beginning of the 21st century, and that this moment is something special, and that what we need to do is repair and go back to the new normal to a form of normal. And then there’s another set of people that I think, see this is one and probably a minor, one of emerging, and subsequent major issues that are coming down the pipeline towards us over the 2020s and 2030s, whether it’s issues around migration, climate change, various kind of geopolitical instabilities and crises, and that it’s the beginning of a new form of sets of insecurities that we’re just going to have to engage with and respond to differently. So depending on how you frame it, I think both your concern, and your responses look very, very different. So what this there’s a concept called the official future in futures work, which is like, what official future did you have in your mind. And very frankly, I personally because of the work that looking at the Sustainable Development Goals, looking at some of the ecological trends that you if you kind of looked at the failure of nation states to grip a lot of these problems, we were on a very bad trajectory. Indeed, in terms of 2030 2040 kind of crises that might be occurring in places like Bangladesh, in across North Africa, the kind of scale of human loss, because of environmental and different crises that we’re facing us could actually genuinely made some really big crises that dwarf COVID-19. And this 2020 is an opportunity for us to think about how we want to build the governance structures at an international and national and especially local community level, to perhaps respond to these kinds of crises in a different way. And really said there’s more than we, honestly, this is mind open conversation here. There’s more issues in the world than we consciously know on an everyday basis. We all know the big ones climate change, yes, of course, pollution. Yes, of course. But there’s issues such as human trafficking, there is issues such as the flesh trade, and so many others that are happening at an invisible level that are connected to all of us, and we all should participate in these issues and try and help and solve and do do what is needed. And the UN I believe, has, I think they have 20, or 21 sustainability goals, I think 17 Sustainable Development Goals. You’re absolutely right. Yeah. interdependent, that interdependent, universal. And they’re basically, I think that the SDG framework, which was developed over 2013 to 2015, including an outreach a public engagement exercise internationally, which was the first of its kind, but also had member states, during some of the framing, it was the first approach to create at a global level, a global vision for what a future of the world might look like if we decide to try and not drive our planet off the cliff, ecologically in terms of rights in terms of inequality. So if you like it’s a kind of aspirational vision for us to try and achieve. And it is universal. It’s interdependent. And it’s complex. It’s a complex systems approach. And I think the UN is, to a certain extent playing catch up around such an ambitious framework. But certainly it’s been I, you know, I see excellent work in New York, for example, they do their city planning around the 17, SDGs. A lot of cities and a lot of regions in Brazil do the same. So it’s a way of making sure that citizens business, civil society, look out to 2030. And instead of just letting governments dictate a straight line and a business as usual trajectory to what the future looks like, it gives them an opportunity to kind of say, Okay, well, if we want to achieve zero hunger, which is one of the goals, how do we Marshal some of the synthetic biology innovations and some of the potential changes in the food sector in order to enable that? What are some of the regulatory innovations that we might need to start thinking about to enable the benefits of this new emerging technology in this field to be distributed? So there’s how do we design supply chains and intellectual property arrangements to ensure that that happens effectively? So these are really interesting. It’s a really interesting and exciting framework within which if we all agree that we want a peaceful, secure, and prosperous future as a globe, and one that’s environmentally secure, not just physically secure, how do we work together to achieve it? Thank you In aftershock I want to talk a little bit about your piece in aftershock this so first of all, I really recommend everybody to get a copy of Aftershock. I believe it’s available on Amazon. It’s 20 or $30. And it’s really an investment that you can do in understanding what’s going on. Everybody in aftershock has a different background, some people are medical doctors, some people are scientists, futures, everybody’s doing something different. And the amount of conversations I’ve had are incredible. So I’m really humbled by what I have seen and what I have talked with people about. That’s part number one, I want to talk about your piece. You talk a lot about philanthropy, you talk about, you know, saving the world, of course, but philanthropy has a big role. Now, in today’s era 2020 COVID-19 crisis has been happening for months and months. One particular person has been surfacing to the top of the news is Bill Gates because he wants to come up with a vaccine. He’s a philanthropist. He’s committed all his billions and trillions to finding a cure. Amazing. I love the story. You’ve got people like Warren Buffett who were committed and they give money. And there’s tons of philanthropist who are literally pouring money into different things. Is that enough? Is the question and what is your take on how philanthropy can help us get better as a world as not just with COVID-19? Absolutely. Thank you for the question. And also, let me just say perhaps now, what a privilege it was to be part of such an illustrious group of futurists. And we are very much a hodgepodge of heterogeneous, perhaps a little bit misfits. What I think what’s interesting about doing futures work is that you had a great quote from Gaston better, you use the future in order to disrupt the present. So I think there’s something really interesting about this interest and yearning to kind of create and understand drivers of change in order to create more opportunities today, and to listen to different voices, who are often at the periphery, seeing weak signals of the future much better than at the center of power. People in their boardrooms, or at number 10, or in the White House are often the last ones to really see the signals of change. So this is I think, what’s exciting about being part of this book, and I really do urge people to read it, because it’s an exciting and extremely varied. Read on the philanthropy piece. First of all, I think it is really interesting to see the roles that philanthropists can have at being the seed funders for structural and systemic change, if you like one of the defining features in a world of uncertainty is paralysis. It’s about overwhelming uncertainty, not knowing what to do apart from continuing with the status quo. And I think what is out and what’s also the case is in a time of crisis, you often have lack of budgets to actually invest to doing new and exciting and different things. So I do think that at this precise moment, but also for the past 10 years philanthropists have, and some of the forward leaning ones have really done a really interesting job at leaning into their potential role for seed funding, systemic change over the long term. What do I mean by that? So you have different organizations and different foundations. And Omidyar network is a really interesting example of that, who like, Well, you know, we want to bring people in a system together, let’s look at water, and what’s happening with water security, all sorts of different actors, from engineers, to the lawyers, to the people who actually the Fisher community, to the people who actually use it for agriculture, and how to actually look at what a sustainable use of water in a certain area might look like, in 1520 years time, and actually funding the system to get together as a whole. And to exchange their views not just on what the problem looks like now, or in the past, water, remember, can often be a driver of conflict as well as other as well as business innovation. But if you actually look at what the potential drivers are looking forward, and develop an approach that a common vision together, as well as be aware of the alternative things that might happen and what your contingency plans collectively as a system might be, then you actually can get some really quite interesting and exciting change. So that’s the kind of potential Another example is I think it’s climate watch, you did some really nice work about bringing together the different foundations that work on climate change, and scientists together globally. And they were like, well, if we’re trying to get to a net zero goal in 2050, what might that glide path look like? How can we get all the different foundations and key actors to think about it and come up with an approach that actually is coordinated and potentially tips the system and innovative approaches? Amazing, I want to read a passage from the book from your chapter, you write that philanthropy now has not just an opportunity, but a responsibility to think and act for the long term this the will to do good in the world is no longer good enough by mainstreaming foresight practice, the sector can make a future friend, not a full in these unquiet and exciting times. And when you wrote that we were not going to the pandemic. So but right on with the future, thinking there that, hey, we’re looking at, we’re living in an quiet time. It’s a time of disruption in many, many ways. You are a practicing futurist, although you don’t like calling yourself that you run the School of International futures. Tell us a little bit about that. What do you do as part of that? institution? So we’re about 25. Amazing and very passionate, committed futurists who want to use foresight approaches to make a better world and to actually embed that into projects and decisions and organizations today, we have some team members in Trinidad and Tobago, all the way through to Asia. And so we are a virtual 21st century organization, but our focus is doing better policy. We are practitioners on policy planning and strategy for future generations. So we’re hoping that by enabling current current decisions makers engage and understand future trends and under put themselves in the shoes of future generations, they can actually act much better to date as stewards for well being in the future. Now, this can take very different kind of forms. And I’d like to share with you perhaps a few examples of some of the work that we’ve done to kind of give you a little bit of flavor of what we’ve done. So you can probably tell by my accent that I’m British, and there is another B word that comes associated with British, which is Brexit. And so about three years ago, we sat down with the Royal Society, to look out at what Brexit different Brexit scenarios might be, for the innovation, the research, the knowledge economy, and the higher education sector in the UK. So at that time, everybody was like, no deadline in three months time, no Cliff in six months time, but we actually looked out 10 years out to 2027. And what’s really valuable was, how interesting that, you know, people were like, these things are definitely not going to happen. And actually, the kind of scenarios that we laid out, were very helpful for the people involved to realize actually to challenge their official view of what they thought was going to happen. And actually, as things progressed, the cone of possibility is actually only increased, didn’t didn’t decrease. We’ve also worked you mentioned UAE, we’ve also worked with the government of Oman, to develop participative scenarios with the Supreme Council of Oman, to develop participant of scenarios for the future of Oman out to 2014. So going around engaging different communities, youth, women, old people just thinking about what’s the desirable future that they want to have on? What’s the alternative possible future given the geopolitical changes? what might happen with the price of oil? what might happen in terms of demographic shifts and shifts in values and beliefs? Now, how can a government both plan for the best and prepare for the worst, if necessary, similarly, we’re doing interesting work with the Gulbenkian foundation in Portugal, looking at intergenerational fairness, and intergenerational fairness is something that is of growing interest. And I think that COVID-19 is just going to put that whole conversation on steroids, which is that there are different countries in which the younger generation feels as if they are hard done by they are on the losing end, or in terms of pensions, inheriting debt, and also in terms of the ecological crisis that they’re facing in the future, and that they’re going to have to clean up. And then if you put the COVID-19. On top of that, where there are heavy economic burdens and costs to restarting the economy that are probably going to fall on the young again, that’s going to be quite problematic. So how do you when a government comes out with a policy? How do you ensure and how do you ask that government, whether that government is is mortgaging my children’s future, or whether it’s a fair policy, in terms of paying for those costs today, that’s what the project is doing. Incredible. And that’s such exciting stuff that you’re doing across the world. And I’m sure there’s many, many others, that’ll happen through the years, I’m so excited to be speaking with you, because I think we’ve captured something that you haven’t been able to talk about before, which is government and how things work within the sector that you mentioned. But I know we’re also out of time cat as an ending and as a parting gift to our viewers, give us maybe one or two points give us maybe one or two or three, whatever you like, how can we create a better future? What’s the easiest process for us to say, Okay, I’m going to think about future scenarios. How can people just do this, I’ve got two points, really, one picks up on your point around government, and one and us as citizens, and one that picks us up as humans, I guess. And in terms of, I think what’s really important is to kind of, we can look at the future as a shiny ball for us to explore and examine and analytically analyze through our through our magnifying glass. But in fact, I would like to put forward a different metaphor, which is the foresight endeavor is actually much more a mirror where we can clearly see ourselves and also see bits of us that we don’t always look at, and in particular, invite people on the periphery or things at the margins to come more clearly interview and speak truth to power. So I think at the end of the day foresight work is actually about power and voice and representation and agency. Because of that, and this is my second point, I actually believe that the capacity to do foresight is a deep capability that is necessary for policymakers. And it’s something that is integral for us to kind of as we’re refreshing democracy and what representative democracy and deliberative democracy looks like in the 21st century as it’s kind of a little bit failing, and it hasn’t quite gripped new potentials to do with technology, as we reimagine what a profound radical democracy looks like the capability of coming together to systematically understand alternative futures, and then build them collectively as a community is a deeply political and empowering act, and fundamentally at the core of the Democratic endeavor. So that’s what we really focus on. And I guess my final points to you, but thank you so much, again, it’s been an absolute pleasure. It’s amazing. Thank you so much, Kat, and where can we find more about you and your work? Is their website? www.sf.org.uk. And please reach out? Yes. Oh, God, org.uk and I’m hoping people do reach out to you, or at least, you know, out of that region to learn more, but folks, please reach out to Kat and her and her team. If you have any questions or you’d like more information, Kat, thank you so much for your time. I really appreciate it. And I wish you an amazing journey had in 2020 and beyond any thanks. It’s been a pleasure. Hey, friend, this is Ian Khan. If you liked what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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by Ian Khan | Feb 10, 2021 | Ian Khan Blog, Ian Khan's Blog, Podcast
Dr. Stanley Rosen in conversation with Futurist Ian Khan
In this episode, i speak with Dr. Stanley Rosen, also a co-contributor to the recent book “After Shock”.
Bio
Dr. Stanley G. Rosen is Professor of Acquisition Management, Defense Acquisition University. Dr. Rosen joined the faculty of DAU in December 2008. He has had extensive experience in strategic planning and program management during a career spanning over four decades. His activities as a business and organizational strategy consultant include work with Toffler Associates, the executive advisory firm formed by Alvin and Heidi Toffler. In addition, Rosen was Director of Strategic Development and Integration for Boeing Satellite Systems. In this capacity, he was responsible for development of Boeing’s strategy for succeeding in the global satellite market, serving a wide variety of US Government and international commercial customers. Prior to the acquisition of Hughes Space and Communications by Boeing, he led Hughes’ ballistic missile defense architecture development and was Strategic Planning Director for Hughes Defense Systems.
Before joining Hughes, Dr. Rosen held scientific, engineering, program management, strategy and policy development positions with the U.S. Air Force, during which time he worked on a wide variety of NASA, Air Force and classified space activities. His last position in a distinguished 21-year military career was Director of Long Range Planning, Space Systems Division, Air Force Systems Command.
Dr. Rosen earned a BS from the U.S. Air Force Academy, a MS in Aerospace Engineering from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, an MS in Systems Management from the University of Southern California, and a Doctor of Engineering degree from the University of Stuttgart, Germany.
He has served in various volunteer capacities, and is currently Vice Chairman of the Board of Directors of the National Space Society. He was a national board member and Vice President of Public Policy of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, is a former Chairman and board member of the California Space Authority and Past President of the Association for Strategic Planning, where he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. He is a certified Strategic Management Professional.
He and his wife Anne live in Los Angeles, California, and have seven children.
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Thanks for watching this video! Please do subscribe to our channel.
Full Transcript : hi friends welcome to the Ian Khan show and you’re listening to and aftershocks special episode in this series I have interviewed experts who have featured and who have contributed to the recent book aftershock. My guest today is Dr. Stan Rosen, who is been on the faculty of the Department of Defense’s Defense Acquisition University. Prior to joining the da u faculty. Dr. Rosen was a management consultant with Topher associates. And formerly he was director of strategic development integration for Boeing satellite systems. Dr. Rosen is an incredible authority on many different things. And we want to know from him today, a few things that he’s got to share over to Dr. Stan Rosen.
Welcome to the Ian Khan show. I’m so thrilled to have you here. Your contribution to the world of futurism is incredible. Your article in aftershock is amazing. Let’s have a conversation about state of the world and the future. First of all, welcome to the show. Thanks, Ian. You know, it’s been great looking at your work, too. And I’ve gone back to see your other podcasts and you’re doing a tremendous service by introducing not only this word, but the other participants in this project, what a what a fantastic project for 50 years after, after this one book came out. And I am humbled to be part of this amazing group of people who have written and compiled this book to their thoughts and ideas and the diversity in all the futurists who are in there. Some of them are medical practitioners, some of them are educators, some are scientists. And every time I have a conversation with someone, I learned something new because of the incredible work that they do. Well, you know, the first thing that came to my mind was the jacket cover says the world’s foremost futurists. Yes, and I don’t consider myself a futurist, if anything, if anything, I’m a practitioner. So you see, you’ve seen the the range of participants here, I’ve only sampled a few of them and look forward to both looking at your podcasts and reading the rest of the material. As I told john only got the book a few days ago, and been looking into it. And I think there is a very wide range of perspectives that generated from this cultural change that the book signified, you know, gave us kind of license to go out and think differently about change, and to start communicating about change. And so from my perspective, one of the ways to frame this is that it’s not just about the future, I mean, the future is one dimension of change, right? We want to have something happened differently, that it could happen in the future. And so we could either be prepared to respond to what’s going to be happening in the future, or we can help create the future. And you’ve had a number of guests talk about both those dimensions. But the other element of change is in it really, I think it is related to Future Shock is that the present, we understand now contains a lot of opportunities for change, there are things happening, there are technologies being developed, there are organizations being developed, that you don’t have to wait for the future for them to impact your life. So the same kind of outreach and forecasting that you would do to look at assess what are the possibilities for the future applies to the present? Well, the near future, I’ll call it the present, the near future is happening right now. So many opportunities for change, that you don’t have to either invent or wait for them to happen to you just changing the perspective and the mindset of how those developments in current activities can offer opportunities for improvement and change and that it’s just another way to frame what we have been calling the future. Absolutely. I think the future is really an evolution off maybe. And I was thinking about this yesterday, I think about this all the time is you know, we always define the future as Okay, it’s tomorrow it’s there, but you’re creating it today like your actions right this second determine your future. So the question is, is the future really the thing that’s going to happen tomorrow as a result of your actions today? Or or is it right now? Is this what we are procreating? So there’s so many definitions, I’m really fascinated by the by a couple of things, human potential, our potential to create change our potential to adapt our potential to change the state of human the people around the world, you know, eliminate poverty and homelessness and, and all of these things. And so there’s so many different definitions. Some of the people that I’ve interviewed are scientists, some of them are medical doctors and surgeons. And so looking at everybody and understanding what they do as futurists, you know, you mentioned you don’t consider yourself as a futurist, but anybody who’s procreating this tomorrow, they’re working on something that will benefit humanity. I think as a futurist, I often tell people who are my clients or who are who I engage with, is that everybody’s a futures that you can be a futurist. If you start thinking about tomorrow. Have you started working on things that will change tomorrow, that’s my no two pens. I feel better have a be included in your group now thank you knows them, then you have such an incredible career you’ve you’ve done so many different things, I don’t want to put a label on you that you’re an educator or you’re a visionary, you have done literally so many things from working, you know, any MIT to working with Congress writing a book, working with God, as he, uh, you faculty, I want you to help us understand, first of all, what has been the trajectory of your career, because what I want to do to that is inspire people who are viewing this and who will view this, we’re looking at new careers to see the diversity in someone’s career that goes from one thing to the other, and how our lives are shaped. And your career is so incredible, I just want us to be inspired. So tell me a little bit. When did you start? Yeah, the trajectory is easy to plot, but I want to draw a common thread through that trajectory. So the trajectory started when I went to the Air Force Academy, and then graduated as a second lieutenant in the Air Force spent 21 years in the Air Force, mostly doing research and development, program management, primarily, in what was emerging at the time is the military space program. And of course, when in those days, the military didn’t know anything about space. Now, not only is the military totally dependent on space, but we now have a new service called the space force as of a few months ago. So been a lot of changes through that. And I participated in that along the way. And then when I left the military, and went into industry, I was at Hughes Aircraft. And at Boeing, after Boeing bought my part of us, which was the use space and communications company. And we did both military, other government like NASA and commercial space activity. So the commercialization of space was another thread that pulled into that then when I retired from Boeing became a consultant with Toffler associates, we then had the opportunity to go back and help those organizations that I’d worked with, and a number of others in doing the kind of things that toddler does best. And after toddler, I consulted on my own for a little while. And then, as you said, join the Defense Acquisition University, and have been involved in program management in the business faculty, both in terms of a instructor and facilitator, but also as a consultant and executive coach. Now, in the thread I want to draw, draw through all that is thinking strategically about how to achieve success. And by strategically you can think of that as future planning. Where do I want to be in the future? What’s a vision for the future? What strategies do I want to put in place to be successful in that future, or that could be as I said, a minute ago, a very near term future there are opportunities for success today. And the example that I picked up from your work looking for example, at blockchain right now, this is an emergent opportunity that so many organizations are taking advantage of to understand a new way of using information technology, to build a framework to be able to do services that have been done in the past and do in different ways that doesn’t wait for the future that’s happening right now. So that’s the thread that goes through that. And what I’m doing in de au is trying to help the professionals in the Defense Acquisition world, understand how to define success, do the kind of scanning of opportunities and threats and what’s really happening in the context of strengths and weaknesses, the old SWOT format, if you will, but then develop strategies and implement those strategies to be successful. So that’s the common denominator through that along the way, I did want to mention that that common denominator kind of manifests itself in an organization I helped start some years ago called it’s called the Association for strategic planning, which strategic planning was in Vogue, 70s and 80s kind of fell out of Vogue organizations went away. By the time the 90s came around. We wanted to start it again. So in Southern California, we created a group for strategic planning, it became the in a California organization, a national organization, and now it’s a global organization, thinking strategically about how to achieve success. Thank you, Stan really helps me understand how your career has shaped until now, a few things that I want to ask you about is I think strategy is one of these things that a majority of people lack when it’s about creating success, creating a company building a company becoming an entrepreneur, and the importance of strategy is critical enable in order to be able to execute on something that you think will take you to your goal to your destination to be whatever you want to be. Have you used any specific frameworks for strategy throughout your career. Do you have a favorite framework or some some recommendations that you can provide? Yeah, and in a way, what I just described captures that in and became the essence of what I wrote about in the book. And that is the way that da you reconceived education to create and I put it in the frame of the toddler’s words, leaders who have the future in their bones to think about the future to build the future to conceive, change, understand strategy. And so so much of what we’re doing at da u has to do with putting these emerging leaders and executives in situations very similar to what the toddler’s described, where instead of traditional education, we give them problems to work. We work in teams, we have multiple instructors come through not just one instructor have them think strategically about defining success, about then doing scans of to understand, as I said before, the classic you can call it, SWAT, what are the opportunities and threats that we need to work within and then how to define successful strategies in terms of the strengths and weaknesses of the organization, what can be developed, and how those can be leveraged to take advantage of the opportunities and create the future. It’s consistent with that vision of success that is very similar. And I looked at the toddler’s prescription for education to what they talked about 15 years ago. And so seeing how the AU had been successful and been recognized, successful in using that and other similar frameworks that the toppers recommended was a natural way for me to comment on where Future Shock is going. Now. By the way, I also in the article talked about something that you are very familiar with. And that is the Millennium project, and that the Millennium project was created and has recommended a variety of approaches to education and tackling current problems in a future context, using many of those same methodologies. So tried to be in a short way capture that in this article in aftershock. Absolutely. I want to ask you about you know, what, what were your experiences working with Toffler? But before that, before you answer that, I want to ask you, when did you first read Future Shock? I don’t remember who it was. Obviously, probably when I was at MIT. I was in grad school in 1970. And so my guess it was during that time, yeah. So Alvin and finally put together Future Shock. And you know, it definitely was very futuristic. Only 50 years ago, the book is is is 50 years is a long time, given how much change occurs right now in the world in two years or five years, right? They say that we have all the data generated in the world today is equal into that, that humanity has generated 100 years and we’re doubling our data and all of those things. So for for Alvin to foresee and understand the impact of change happening on the world 50 years ago. It’s incredible. And I’m floored by that. So different futures that I’ve been speaking with, and different experts have a different take on it. Some love it. Some have. Some are critical. Some said, Oh, he missed something. And some say, Well, he got banged on, you got to do it. What are your thoughts on what he foresaw 50 years ago? And how the world is today? Do you see being different or kind of in line with what he what he said? So let me answer that question with a question, if I could, because I want to take advantage of the short time that we have to make this into a true dialogue. Sure. The title of your article in the book was the toddler secret to unlocking human potential, right? What do you think was the tougher secret to unlocking human potential? And I noticed in your article, you talk about the seven axioms, which are very powerful. And I want to get a feel from you about how you think those seven axioms relate to the toddler’s secret for unlocking human potential because when I read your article you answered it answered for me the question that you asked. So a great question. Thanks. Then I think beyond what Toffler wrote as this futuristic world, this mega trends and things that will shape our lives and so on. I think beneath that, Toffler was also trying to give us a message of how to adapt to this world, how to be successful in this world, how to change our state, in order to survive and thrive in this world that is so futuristic and full of change. And so the seven axioms literally are for me, they are the foundation of what I do and in my work in the framework that I have called future readiness score, and I have a few different things that are part of my work. They make sense to me when it comes to changing our state when it comes to adapting to change when it comes to creating a better future. And those are for me, completely maps on what Toffler wrote in his books and his works. And what every futurist talks about, right in today’s data names, or they’ve talked about in the past, is how do we change the future and for me, It’s those seven things, you know, we’re constantly in a state of change with respect to how our environment changes that it’s the engagement, the state of engagement has changed. Yes, technology has accelerated that a lot. Social media has exponentially changed that a lot. But that rate of engagement has always always been changing because of different things that are happening in our world. Our relationships have changed with people, the way we communicate, is constantly changing. And the other coins whether it’s, you know, people, the changing generations, I mean, generations have always changed. There’s always been multiple generations. So there’s nothing new right now, if we have millennials and the post millennial generation, it’s always been happening. But we recognize that these generations have different needs different ways of thinking, maybe we have much more focused on that right now. collaboration, and execution being the last one, which is really Yes, we know all of these things are happening. But people who actually execute on these strategies, ideas and plans that they make, are actually the ones who adapt the change the best way possible. And so that’s kind of what I wrote about was, you know, the secret to do what Toffler said, The secret to futures org and offers, that was work as well. Those were my thoughts. So thank you, thank you. And that really helped me understand what you wrote for unlocking human potential later, I think the toddlers understood that. And you mentioned this before, the emerging opportunities for increased and improved collaboration, co op petition, if you will, and your talk about the opportunities for collaboration and partnerships, leveraging people and their need to self actualize. And so this opportunity to do that, as a collaborative, you know, like we can share you and I today, over over this medium in ways that we couldn’t do 50 years ago. And so we’ve seen and I think, in a way been guided by the toddler vision as these technologies emerge, that they have tremendous potential and value. And now we find ourselves in a situation where, like it or not, many of us are having to rely on these collaborative technologies to get things done. And we’re finding that there’s much more powerful tools than we might have otherwise realized. Yeah. As we speak, you know, we’re having to convert so many of our traditional methodologies da EU, in particular, but da you along with everybody else, to understand how to leverage these powerful technologies to do what you and I are doing right now to have a mind meld at a distance, which is much more powerful than we knew how to do before we were forced to explore these technologies. And I think the toddlers, at least in my limited exposure to Alvin, when I was working for topler Associates, really was excited about that opportunity that not only was emerging, but people were still just beginning to learn about and again, I worked for Toffler associates, you know, over 10 years ago, so things changed a lot since then. Yeah, of course, I want to read a passage I want to read a quote from from the book from your chapter, that goes something like this increase focus on developing creativity, critical thinking human relationships, philosophy, entrepreneurship, art, self employment, social harmony, ethics and values, Know thyself to build and lead a meaningful working life, that self assessment of progress on one’s own goals and objectives, I can take that post it on my wall, and just freed from it for the rest of my life, honestly, because you summarize things really, really succinctly very nicely. Help us help us digest that a little bit. Tell Tell me a little bit more about that. Well, the cabinet, what we’re trying to do, of course, is capture a lot of toddlers intention and how that intention had manifests itself. In a short paragraph, we only had a few words to to deal with. So it’s a compendium, if you will, of opportunities, a companion of perspectives of if we keep these perspectives in mind, we can better leverage the kind of emerging opportunities we’ve been talking about this morning. And that Toffler saw both Topher saw coming at the time is just trying to squeeze the juice out of it, of course, and this is like your your five recommendations, if you will, on how to proactively create the future. You also talk a lot about STEM education, what’s the future of education? How should we make it more transparent, more acceptable more? What can we change in the field of education? Well, I’m not an expert on that. No, you see it from my knothole. But from my knothole, if I want to leverage what we’ve already talked about, we would take the technologies that are available, along with the attitudes that you just discussed, and the intention about looking at not only the future, but looking at as I said, What’s so today and help people understand and develop the tools to reframe Their ability to mine watch. So to understand what so and to develop strategies to create that positive future. That’s the the core skill that I’m interested in. Absolutely. I know, Stan, we don’t have a lot of time. But I’m really grateful for you for joining us and talking to us very briefly about some of the things help you understand or tell us a little bit more about your book and some something about your work where people can approach you find more about you read some of your writings. So the latest book that I think you’re referring to is called space 2.0. And this was produced with a lot of help with some great writers and artists and thinkers to share which the opportunities that are emerging right now to change the way that civilization relates to its existence, not just on the surface of this planet, but in the greater universe. And the point is that it’s not just about space colonies or space settlements, or migrating to other planets, but also using the resources, that space offers everything from being in orbit to look down to being able to communicate globally, to be able to develop capabilities using those technologies to for example, navigate GPS, and what GPS is done, did use space for manufacturing. And right now we’re on the cusp of many, many changes in those developments. We started back in the late 50s, with Sputnik develop revolutionary capabilities to put things into orbit, then to go to the moon and to go to beyond, then we learned how to put people in space, we’ve had the International Space Station, all the framework is there. And now you’re seeing the private sector get much more involved in putting private money into developing businesses and other capabilities for both both government customers and private customers to expand civilization. So space 2.0 is looking at what’s happening right now, in terms of that revolutionary change. And its opportunities for new careers, new investments, new policies, new international cooperation as a new framework for changing the way we think about human civilization. In a way hopefully, it was written in a way that’s not just for the space club, or for the people that already understand that which there are a lot of books about that. That can be was written so it could be a gift for your teenage son, or a gift from your for your seven year old or give it to dad so he understands what’s going on. Written for a very general audience by a very talented team on behalf of the National Space society. That’s what this latest book is. space. 2.0 incredible is the space 2.0 available on Amazon. Where can people get absolutely Oh, yeah. Okay, all the normal outlets. Perfect, perfect. Stan, I really appreciate your time. I know we’re over our time. But I really do appreciate it. I hope we were able to continue this dialogue at a at another time. But in the meanwhile I want everybody to grab a copy of Aftershock from Amazon and wherever else they buy books. This is the best read that I have had in many, many, many years. And I really recommend everyone buying a copy read your content and your thoughts in it and really be inspired. Stan, thank you so much. You take care and we’ll continue this dialogue another time. We definitely will be in and thanks so much for allowing me to participate in your in your podcast. My pleasure. Thank you so much Dan, you take care Thank you Take care. Hey, friends, this is Ian Khan. If you like what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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by Ian Khan | Feb 10, 2021 | Ian Khan Blog, Ian Khan's Blog, Podcast
Hannes Sapiens – Biohacker – In Conversation with Futurist Ian Khan
In this episode, i speak with globally recognized Futurist Hannes Sapiens, also a co-contributor to the recent book “After Shock”.
Bio
Hannes Sapiens Sjoblad is an internationally recognised thought leader, media commentator and professional advisor on biohacking, human augmentation and the impact of exponential technologies on the human condition.
As a campaigner and activist he works to democratize public access to and understanding of new, powerful technologies in the field of biohacking. With a background in international business, deep insights in emerging technology fields and an easy going style of communication, Hannes is a popular speaker and business advisor on tech trends.
Learn more about Hannes at https://www.hannessapiens.com
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Full Transcript : Hi friends and welcome to this episode of the Ian Khan show. You’re listening to an aftershock special episode and I’m speaking with a co contributor to the recent book aftershock. Today I’m speaking with Hannes Sapiens who’s a biohacker and human argumentation technologist committed to the idea of radically improving the human condition. He’s an author, speaker, professional advisor on the impact of exponential technologies. And he’s also a faculty member at Singularity University, Nordic Let’s speak with Hannes. Hannes Welcome to the Ian Khan show ladies and gentlemen today I have with me hennis Sapiens. He’s based out of Stockholm works for Singularity University, and he and I are the contributors to aftershock. It’s the book put together by a friend john shorter and a book that came out 50 years after Alvin Toffler wrote the book, Future Shock 50 years ago, it’s so long ago it how do we even make sense of what he wrote back then, is what we’re going to talk about right now.
How are you? hennis? I’m very well, thank you. And it’s it’s great to be on here with you. Thank you so much for making time. I know you’re in Stockholm. So give us a COVID-19 impact assessment as to what’s happening in Stockholm. Right? Well, frankly, I think life here is relatively close to normal compared to many other places. We haven’t really had a proper lockdown. The kids still go to school. Obviously, a lot of people work from home. I do that myself. But I’m happy to tell you that life is carrying on relatively normal over here. So Sweden right now, obviously, is one of those countries that is defined conventional norms. It’s defined what everybody’s talking about lockdown, shut down everything, Don’t move, don’t do anything. But I think the world is failing to understand what Sweden is doing and why it’s doing it. And many people are afraid that isn’t the right thing to do. What’s the strategy behind keeping everything open? What are Swedes doing to stay safe? Generally speaking, right. So this, this could potentially be a long conversation. But my main takeaways for an international audience would be that the Swedish strategy is that the cure shouldn’t be worse than the initial disease. So yes, COVID-19 is a terrible disease. But if we run the country into a complete economic crash, then that’s going to have even worse consequences. And fool currently in works for a short time, but it has also has many negative effects for society. I think the explanation why this is happening in Sweden is partly the way this country works. And partly, it’s the culture of Swedes. So the first dimension is that in Sweden, the politicians have stepped back from from making decisions and left it to the experts. Whereas in many other places, we’ve seen politicians who want to be brave, and they want to make decisions that they want to show that to take it seriously. And they lock everything down and close the borders. And that’s not very sustainable. If this is going to last for for many, many months. Yes. second dimension is that we Swedes have a general overall we obey authority to a decent extent. So if the government tells us stay at home, don’t meet your grandparents, people actually comply to a very large extent without you know, the threat of putting police and military in the street to enforce these things. Excellent. Well, hoping everybody comes out of this without a scratch. Let’s talk about Toffler Toffler has changed the way many of us think. aftershock got 50 plus futurists together and we all wrote our piece in the book talking about what does Future Shock mean? What are we doing today, you’ve written that you constantly are trying to explain Future Shock to people, or you’re trying to put them into Future Shock, so that they could start understanding the changes the world is going through and so on. Tell me about your process of knowing Future Shock, and then helping others understand it, right. Yes, I read the book many years ago, and I found it very inspirational. So it’s been a concept of carried with me for many years. And one thing that I have been doing a lot over the last few years is that I have been very active in the world of biohacking, where we experiment with new technologies, and what we can do to modify biological systems everywhere, from sales to plants, to animals, even to homosapiens. And in this role, I have been traveling the world really speaking to audiences and doing workshops with companies and organizations and I, as a practical biohacker, I really enjoyed taking people through an experience before I do the theory part. And one of the many hacks that we apply is to chip implant people on stage and chip implants is an awesome way to experience how technology is not just modifying society and business but also ourselves. And I find the reactions to instead of showing people some beautiful slides and curves when you actually take them through a live demo when there is blood and there is needles and there is drama that touches very deeply and it conveys a very strong message and when I think Think of this in terms of giving people a proper Future Shock. And so you’re putting Future Shock into actual perspective by by getting people to interact with technology in the way they always listen. But then you’re getting them to experience that I think that’s a great way of getting people to, to understand something is by going through the process, the pain, the pleasure, whatever we can call it. In the book, you also talk about the ideas of Big Brother, Big Sister, they’re always talking about surveillance states, how the world is changing how we’re being watched, and how some people always want to know what you’re doing and how they use our information to do whatever they need to do. And there’s so many different ideas, thoughts, people who have different ways of thinking about it. How do you separate these Tell us about your philosophy on this? Right? Well, in a nutshell, we live in a world, which is already a world of distributed sensors and big data and enormous data flows. This is the new normal, it’s not going to go away. And you can take different perspectives on this, the obvious one, let’s say the 20th century perspective would be, oh, no, this is a big brother society, we are being under surveillance, we are being you know, abuse and data is being taken of our behavior. And then it’s being used against us in different ways. And it’s overall a frightening, you know, idea of the future. What I’m trying to convey and with the metaphor of the big sister society is that if we take this world of big data, and consciously design, how we want these things to work with respect for the individual user, and also giving the user control and power over their own data, then we can enable a very different society. And with the metaphor of the big sister society, what I want to convey is a world where it is not a big brother bully that sort of observes you and addresses you in ways that frighten you. But a caring system watched over by machines of loving Grace is a classic line from a good old poem. And what I’m trying to say with the big sister society is that we can create a society in which the systems take care of us to a very great extent. Then there’s of course, the the ironic twist that I myself grew up with two big brothers and I never had a big sister. So maybe I see them in a in a somewhat rose tinted light. Yeah, and you write about this in the book and I’m going to read from from actually from the book use a big sister does not spy on us, She protects us from prying eavesdroppers Big Sister does not monitor our online habits in order to push more products on us. Instead, she negotiates with the other superbly powerful systems on the other side on our behalf. And I want to add a thought here that I really believe we are going to this very initial evolution of our relationship with technology, right? Our relationship with surveillance, artificial intelligence, robotics, name it, whatever it is, I don’t think we’ve lived with all these things for many, many years. And I think first off this primary relation that we have many things we are too keen on many things we don’t observe. I’m wondering, and it’s an open question. I wonder what the world will be like 20 years from now, or 30 years from now. Right. And I’m thinking about Toffler 50 years ago, he wrote the book, what will the world be 25 years from now? Will we really be so attached to our data and our information that we are as we are right now? Or would we have evolved to a different state, and we wouldn’t care about something? What do you think about that, I think there are data that we still don’t have access to that are tremendously important. For example, data relating to our own health. Today, if I feel ill, for some reason, I need to go to a doctor, I need to draw a blood sample, we need to analyze it in a lab, and then I’ll get my data A week later. And this for me, the body has a system, if something that we urgently need to have a completely different data access to. And in 20 years from today, I think that will absolutely be the norm. I think that what we need is a technology that gives us a real time understanding of what is happening in our systems. We can do this for companies, we can create awesome companies with dashboards of web traffic or cash or inventory flows. But we can’t do it for the most important system of all the ones that keeps us alive. And my vision is that we must create this technology that allows us this access to our bodies. And I would like to make the analog with vaccinations because 100 years ago, most people were not vaccinated and many people died from diseases like tuberculosis. And today, it’s of course the norm. Everyone has numerous vaccinations during the years when we grow up, and we don’t question it. My view is that in 20 years from now People will be asking how did people survive back then when you didn’t have this real time understanding of what was going on in your bodies? And you know, what will tell them? We can say, Yeah, can you imagine people died back then? Yeah, I completely agree with you, and that we are going through this natural process of rejecting something new and fighting and opposing it, but then we are getting very comfortable with it. One of the dilemmas with technology generally doing so much for us is, is privacy is the integrity of information. I think at the end, I could be wrong. But if you simmer down everything, people are either afraid of their body that they will be caused bodily harm if their information is exposed to let’s say, my information is exposed. And I might say, well, a stalker will come to my home and attack me or rob me correct. Like, literally the bottom line. Or people might say, well, somebody’s going to steal all my money from my bank. Remember, the early days, when online banking started, people wouldn’t even log into online bank saying no, I don’t trust this thing. Because why? Well, somebody may access my funds and take my money. So these are literally big, big things that people are afraid of. And my question to everybody all the time is, what if these they have our information and they cannot do anything, right? You see a lot happening with the democratization of technology and how data is everywhere. Maybe tomorrow, it would be fine to give our data away. And we wouldn’t be afraid that any harm will come to us financial, economic, bodily harm. One of the things now that I want to get into regarding biohacking is that sure, we’re going to have implants, we’re going to maybe and that’s where we’re going with by hacking, correct? What if the corporation that controls these implants starts controlling me and does something to me makes me into a slave or robot? I don’t know people have great imagination, they can see see to make the worst. So how do we start creating that understanding what the possibilities are what what are your thoughts on this, as you as you do this work in biohacking? I think we’ve overcome bigger challenges. I think that this is in many ways, it’s the perspective of human rights. It’s not the data in itself, that is bad in any way. We need to understand if we specifically take body data, for example, it’s always an agent with a certain agenda that has the potential to abuse it. And in open societies and in well, working societies, we have protections against these things. And this is what we must extend to all human beings on this planet, the principles of privacy of human rights in a broad sense. There are also initiatives, of course, regarding understanding the rights for upgraded persons, such as, for example, the right to have ownership to technology, third party technology in your body, right to imagine that I would have at some point an implant from Apple, for example, at any point in time, I will have the right to if they want to take it away, I will have the right to keep it if it’s part of me, I will be able to say yes or no to any kind of software systems that are installed there. We can set up rules and procedures that actually protect the individual to a significant extent with technology, and also the legal systems that we have in place today. So I am an optimist that we will muddle through with creating this more benevolent surveillance system, which I call the big sister, do you see some regions, some countries are doing some really good work regarding this? I know a lot of places and regions are doing work about it. But good work? What are some of the good examples that you can share with us? Well, let me be honest with you, I am proud. And I’m also happy to be living in Europe. In this day and age, because of the way data is treated here. If you somewhat simplify the different wealth systems and how we work with data, you can you have the American model, which is that individuals users data or the property of the corporations, it can be collected, it can be sold, it can be traded, it can be exploited in many ways. And then you have the Chinese version, which is data, not for profit, but data for control. When it’s the state that collects the data on the people companies are relatively restricted, but the government can apply the insights on people’s behavior and sanction different behaviors. Whereas in the European model, we do our best far from perfect to protect individual rights and human freedoms under the law. And I think for example, with the GDPR, we have a decent degree of protection. It’s interesting to see though how other parts of the world how this is playing out, because we can see that countries with more authoritarian tendencies such as Russia and Turkey, they are looking very closely at the Chinese model. So we’ll really see I see this is a battle of really some different systems in the 21st century, how we how we manage these big data models on a national and international level. I also think that I completely agree. I also think we’ve got to do a lot of work when it comes to regulations when it comes to international relationships when it comes to Africa. work that we can apply to this or subset of technologies globally, right? Because if I have data implants, or if I have implants of some kind in me, you know, I’ve got different things happening. And I go from us to I go to Japan, or I go to India or I go to China, and I should have the same rights or, you know, the governance around having those implants. And so that’s very important. I think that a framework be created. Is there somebody who’s leading this? Or is there somebody who’s creating this framework? Is there a body an organization that’s working on this right now or no, not to my knowledge, there is no international initiative on a significant level, there are brilliant technologists and philosophers who are exploring these points, I think that they may not be as influential as we want them to be. But COVID-19 is, of course, a roadblock now in terms of the ongoing globalization, but I think that globalization and international harmonization of laws of travel of industry of business is just it’s going to pick up again, sooner or later. It’s an inevitable development. And of course, we need to harmonize these things. Otherwise people will vote with their feet and go to places where they feel that they are treated fairly. Absolutely hoping that the next five to 10 years we’ll see more development in the world of biohacking. Help us maybe take, you know, the first few steps into biohacking. What should our listeners do about it? Where can they go and read more about it? Or what can they do? I’m not saying they should start experimenting on their bodies with something but what is it? They should? What is the safe way, which is my right, so there are many good things in which you can explore just getting to understand your so let me explain briefly the concept of biohacking specifically for us humans, what we can do is you can measure thanks to new technologies, a lot of things about your body, through wearables and other systems, you can log and understand your system in many good ways, then the hacking comes in first you need to understand the system, then you need to see how you can modify it. If you want to change your vital parameters in various ways your cholesterol are different vitamin levels, etc. You can address that through diet and exercise and supplements, etc. So but I would encourage everyone to, for example, do a DNA test, get an understanding of your own genome don’t do this silly ones, like oh, what’s my heritage, that’s not what this is all about. It’s about understanding how your system works, what kind of diseases you’re susceptible to what kind of diet and exercise that are actually optimal for you based on your genetics. And in this perspective, I think that everyone should really do a genetic test, because you will learn a lot of interesting things. A rapidly expanding field in genetics is pharmacogenomics. pharmacogenomics, is the fact that your genes, in fact, have a great effect on different medicines that you take. And a lot of people take medicines that don’t really have the expected effect, because they have certain gene variants, a lot of doctors subscribe to certain medicines without being aware of whether the patient has that particular gene or not. And if you go to the FDA website, they are have an ever growing list of gene markers that now relate to different medications. So this is a completely new field in research that has just exploded over the last few years simply because we now have access to huge human genome datasets. And I encourage everyone to learn about this technology, what you can do with it, and how it really impacts your life in very important ways. You mentioned the DNA test, is there a specific test stance that people should take like there’s, there’s probably many of them, there are hundreds online, you can just browse around. Now, if you’re concerned about how they use your data, I wouldn’t go for a US based one, forgive me. But I’d rather go for a European based one, where you actually own the data, even if it’s in the company system. And there are dozens of them online. And so the reasons for doing a genetic test is learn about disease, learn about how you should eat and exercise and most importantly, perhaps learn about what kind of medications you may or may not be suited to taking. And then it’s the more cute and little bit silly dimension, which is Oh, what kind of ancestry Do I have and find the distant relatives? That’s not for the biohackers? Absolutely. Well, I think that that’s an interesting thought for us to go and figure out who we are, first of all, and then get into the second stage of optimizing our body, look into biohacking, see what can enhance our lives our health? You never know what’s what’s around the corner. A hand is where can people find out more about you? Where can they follow you check out your work, tell us right so I’m on most of the social platforms if they want to find me on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, it’s harness Sapiens. And I’m very happy to engage with people who are human augmentation and human body modification will give us radically different better future. Amazing. Well, thank you so much Hannah’s for being here having this conversation with us. Thank you for being part of Aftershock. It’s been incredible sharing the platform with thinkers like yourself, very humbling for me to be part of that special group of people keep doing what you’re doing, continue making changes in the world. And hopefully we’ll see around the bend after COVID-19. And I completely agree the world is going to bounce back things are going to change and hopefully we’ll be stronger, better. And yeah, we’ll look forward to catching up with you very shortly. My pleasure. I thank you very much for time you take care. Hey, friends, this is Ian Khan. If you like what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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by Ian Khan | Feb 10, 2021 | Ian Khan Blog, Ian Khan's Blog, Podcast
Bestselling Author Kris Ostergaard on the Ian Khan Show
Kris Ostergaard is a researcher, author and globally sought after keynote speaker on innovation, corporate culture and the impact of technological change. He is co-founder and Chief Learning & Innovation Officer of SingularityU Nordic, the Nordic entity of Silicon Valley based educational institution, Singularity University.
Besides being the author of Transforming Legacy Organizations, Kris also co-authored The Fundamental 4s – Designing Extraordinary Customer Experiences in an Exponential World. He has co-founded the experience design firm DARE2, accelerator program Thinkubator and co-working space DARE2mansion. Kris is also a board member, angel investor and advisor to both startups and Fortune 500s.
Kris is also bestselling author of Transforming Legacy Organizations: Turn your Established Business into an Innovation Champion to Win the Future.
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Thanks for watching this video! Please do subscribe to our channel.
Full Transcript : Hi friends and welcome to the Ian Khan Show. Today we’re listening to a special aftershock episode and I’m speaking with a co contributor to the book aftershocks. My guest today is Chris Ostergaard. He’s the co founder and chief learning and Innovation Officer at Singularity University Nordic, which is the North Nordic entity of Singularity University is the author of transforming legacy organizations, co author off the fundamental fours. Let’s go over to Chris. Welcome to the Ian Khan show. And today I have with me a really great friend, Chris Ostergaard. He’s based out of Denmark. He’s in Copenhagen, one of the big, most beautiful cities that I personally like.
And Chris, how are you? I’m very good. Thank you. How are you? I’m doing well. How are things are working out in Copenhagen? I’m asking everybody about COVID-19. What are the repercussions? Tell me how you guys doing there? First of all, yeah, I feel always I have to emphasize how lucky I am to live in a country like Denmark. And that is actually also correct this time around. So relatively speaking, we are safe here in Denmark, I think the government reacted relatively quickly as well. So we’ve been in more or less of total lockdown about the Prime Minister just announced today that they’re opening up slightly. Now we’ve had, again, relatively speaking few deaths, and the curve has flattened and it looks to be moving in the right direction. So I feel that we’re in a in a fortunate place compared to a lot of other countries around the world. You know, a few weeks ago, maybe a couple of months, I should say now that we were all moving at a certain pace in our lives with business with life, and we were paying attention to many things. We were not paying attention to many things. But it’s so amazing how that perspective changes how our focus changes, because of what’s happening in the world outside. How do you think the world will come out of COVID-19? What do you see happening in the next couple of years? Let’s start there. So what I think will happen is that what we’re already seeing is there are a lot of, you know, jokes and cartoons floating around on the internet on who sort of sped up the digital transformation processes in the world and in organizations. Was it the CIO? Was it the CEO? Or was it the Coronavirus, right. And so for organizations who have been forced to move even more radically into digital transformation as our society as a whole, obviously, we’re all working from home now, or at least most of us to probably what that means is that cause those trends existed already the move towards digital or probably what it means is that it is sped up the pace at which law will transition into this with five, seven years, let’s say right, so while we of course, there’s another there’s light at the end of the tunnel in regards to us being able to meet physically, again, hopefully very, very soon traveling and going to restaurants, tourism, all of that stuff. I’m convinced that this has really accelerated the whole move into digital for all of us, both professionally and personally, to a much higher degree than would have otherwise been the case. Absolutely. And I can’t agree more that you know, we’re we’re going towards a different world, of course, majority of everything being seen, but at least I think people have given it a test drive and people who haven’t been technology savvy, they’re using technology, and hopefully it creates some efficiency in our world. It reduces our carbon footprint, it does all of those good things that it’s supposed to do. I really believe that it’s some kind of maybe a wake up call or maybe a great leveler, greater reset, greater refresh. It’s one of those things where we’re getting an opportunity to think a little bit more because we were just so busy in the world that we live in. So I really suggest everybody to utilize this time in reading more in doing an online course in studying and doing a bunch of these things that you’ve been constantly being let go. So good time to do that. Let’s talk about technology. So we’re here because we both are contributors to this amazing book called aftershock. And aftershock was put together by a friend john Schroeder. He needs to pay me every time I say his name seriously. I’ve said his name so many times. But john shorter put this book together called aftershock. 50 years after the famous futurist Alvin Toffler wrote his book, Future Shock and Future Shock was a revolution 50 years ago, he talked about this future with technology and how people will behave and so on and so forth. And so this book has 50 different futurists who talk about the future. Alvin Toffler. Tell me about your experiences and your exposure to Alvin Toffler. Yeah, so well, it was really amazing to get the chance to contribute to this book, because obviously, I have, you know, been in the space of innovation for I guess, almost two decades now in various shapes and forms. And so the book Future Shock has always, you know, stood out almost as a Bible in regards to looking into where we will we’re heading as a society and the impact that technology will have as well. I think his predictions and his scenarios for the future, there are so many remarkable insights on his account that it’s just mind boggling to see now 50 years after I read the book and in preparing for contributing to to aftershock, and it was just mind boggling to me to really see how he nailed it in terms of some of these very big influence inchoate trends that we’re seeing, including, as we were just speaking about speed, the whole notion of, you know, the adhocracy, the network, HR organizations, and how we would all be operating at a pace and impact so far, far bigger than what was the case in 1970. And he certainly got that right. And that was sort of what inspired me to take that as a starting point to look into then. So what does that then mean for you know, the next 50 years or thereabouts? And so you also you work with Singularity University, isn’t that right? Yeah. I’m a co founder of Singularity University, we system Nordic entity of Singularity University. So we have our headquarters in Copenhagen and no service all of the Nordic countries on the faculty of Singularity University, where I’m specialized in regards to innovation and primarily innovation in large established organizations. I recently wrote a book called transforming legacy organizations that deals with this. And I’m also the host of the corporate innovation podcast, which is a Singularity University podcast as well. And Singularity is incredible. With the number of programs you guys have the number of experts you’ve got, I’ve definitely interviewed a few people from Singularity University on my podcast series as part of Aftershock. And hopefully I’m also looking forward to perhaps interviewing a couple of more people that I’ve missed. But Peter, Peter Diamandis is amazing, incredible to see all the work you guys do. XPrize is amazing. It’s great for innovation and to push the boundaries. Let’s talk about artificial intelligence is one of these things that we all are continuously pushing and pushing ahead. And you have a really nice model of human AI roles in the future workplace, you know, what does the future look like when it’s the the mesh between artificial intelligence helped me understand this model that you have here? And I’m going to put this up here? I’ve been reading it. Yeah. talk. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah. So what I was investigating and have been thinking a lot about and wrote about in aftershock was the whole notion of so whatever topless spoke about these network HR organizations, and you know, the radical increase in pace and impact that we will be seeing from organizations and with all the technological development, then we have been seeing, and we’ll be seeing what does that then mean for the types of organizations that we will have in the future. And to me those, there’s really two key issues here, which is about human and artificial intelligence, I’m pretty sure I don’t know how far down the line, but at one point, we will be talking about artificial intelligence and longer, right, that sort of terminology, simply because I guess it is still so new to us. But then I guess that’s the point and making that, you know, increasingly artificial intelligence, and what that enables, becomes, you know, natural to us, or, as a default, that is just absolutely, basically necessary for running a company. And I guess we’re almost already there. And certainly, pretty soon, if you’re not AI powered as an organization, well, you know, then you have issues. And thus it is it is about AI or human execution and AI or human authority in regards to your organization who does the work and who calls the shots. And let me to develop this model here, that’s, you know, the basic two by two that sort of highlights four core organizational models that we already see, one of them is still relatively theoretical theology we already see and we will see them in an even more emphasized version. And so the most relatable probably is what I call the hyper lean organization. So that is your big tech companies of today the most of the the Silicon Valley and increasingly from other places as well hardcore tech companies that how are by almost entirely digital, they’re empowered by technology, they know working very hard to become AI, first all of them, so they have to a larger and larger extent AI execution, right, but they have human authority. And so what I’m contemplating here is that you know, increasingly, we will be able to have AI execution on more and more tasks. And the question then becomes, at a certain point, we might be able to give the job to the AI or have the AI executed, and when will we choose not to give the authority to the AI? When will we choose to remain in the driver’s seat as human beings? Yeah, that’s the human versus AI authority. And you know, and I guess that that becomes an ethical, philosophical discussion. At one point, we will be able to have the AI call the shots, but we will choose based on some ethical guiding principles that no we want to call the shots at least at a certain level, but increasingly that will mean that organizations the hyperlink organizations, they will be, you know, have management levels of people but won’t be needing human beings for execution. As you know, core staff are will to a much larger, larger extents rely on freelancers, which is another sort of core forms of organization that we will see we already seeing it, of course, but that will be by far the dominant way of working. Yeah, that is where of course you have human execution here. But increasingly AI authority, I got you. Now we’re in now, you mentioned the Silicon Valley that there’s some kind of, you know, the early adopters of AI are in Silicon Valley. What other pockets in the world do you see adapting more towards this AI driven world? I see a lot being done done in Europe to in to some extent, you know, the Netherlands is doing something. The UAE United Arab Emirates, Dubai is doing something with an entire artificial intelligence ministry, Saudi Arabia is doing something with a newly formed ai thority that’s working on AI in any particular experiences or insights, China, so probably no one at least geographically is doubling down harder on AI than China is. And and I don’t think you can find any country in the world wouldn’t say that, you know, AI is absolutely core to the future, you will be hard pressed to find companies not saying that. And of course, they have very different levels of maturity, where the Silicon Valley and quotation mark types of organizations are sort of leading the game here, but that doesn’t matter. They’re found in Silicon Valley or in Shenzhen or in Tel Aviv, or where they’re coming from. And that’s, that’s really on how they are designed from the get go on their understanding of technology. Well, legacy organizations, you know, it’s a longer journey for them, right, because there are still, again, different maturities. But they’re still you know, moving from analog to digital. And But increasingly, of course, that also means that they’re thinking AI from the minute they start to think about digital. Now, what about some of these really extremely large corporations that are funding AI researching AI, they’ve got billions of people who use their products and solutions, and we know who we’re talking about, which is great, we love their product solutions, and everything’s great. It makes our life so much more easy. But where do we start looking at AI as something that could fall into the wrong hands and the information people have out there could be used in a wrong way? like where’s the ethical boundary? Where’s the regulation boundary? How’s regulation, ethics, user rights, privacy all coming together? When we talk about AI? That’s the billion dollar question. Right. But maybe it’s the trillion dollar question. So a lot of people are asking those questions right now, both on a societal level and enterprise level and individual level. I think there are many ethical dilemmas in here and which is also actually a reason that we are right now in the process of putting together a book, which is like aftershock also an anthology called ethics at work, which is exactly about this stuff, how do we move into the future and ensure that as enterprises as organizations, we do that in an ethical manner, knowing that due to the exponential developments of technology that you know, our powers and the impact we can have with these technologies is increasing dramatically. So ethics becomes ever more important? And there’s so many questions that need answering here. And I think what kind of answers we are giving will mean, you’re dependent on a lot of different things we see geographically, if you look to us versus China versus the EU, it’s a very, very different philosophical foundation for how we think about ethics and how we act out our ethics so well. So that’s like one starting point. And then of course, you have individual organizational philosophies as well, that also impact the center. The bottom line is, as we’re speaking right now, this is very early days when it comes to ethics is that most people and that also goes for top leaders in organizations and politicians, they don’t really have awareness about the importance of ethics, they don’t have a language or ethics, they don’t have principles, they don’t have frameworks. So it’s really about kickstarting these conversations to move that into figuring out what are the kinds of actions we need to take, and how do we operationalize ethics. That’s really what’s going to be absolutely at the core of it. And what’s challenging is that, you know, we’ve had technology in the mainstream for I would say, for over 20 years now, at least 30 plus years, we’ve used technology on an everyday basis. And it’s taken us so long to come to the point where we are right now. Now, undoubtedly, AI and related technologies will accelerate the pace of change, and AI will teach itself and machine and robotics and Internet of Things will all come together. I really don’t see that happening for the next five to seven years, or even 10 years. All right, the scenarios that are posted in the movies and media, I think they’re pretty far away based on oil in some pockets. Maybe yes, you might see a lot of automation. But when we look at generally AI dominating in running different things across the world, where do you see it kind of becoming the mainstream? What timeframe would you give it? So it’s interesting when we’ve been a couple of studies done qualitative studies with relatively large bundles of experts in a variety of domains with this question on whether we Hitting what type of AI development or dominance etc. And I think what everybody agrees upon is you know how wildly they agree upon the timelines for when something will happen, but everybody agrees that you know, it will happen at some point, I think, you know, what is what is automation is one part we will the Coronavirus was will also accelerate this because organizations need to double down on innovation. That’s sort of the hard part because during crisis, typically innovation suffers. But they also of course, need to double down on efficiency and effectiveness. And that means automation. And that means leveraging AI then even faster pace and then what they were already doing, but then it’s consumer, right. So it’s you know, it’s Amazon, its Alexa, that’s where it’s coming from, right. It’s about you know, evermore convenience for the consumer ever more customer centricity for the consumer AI, plays and can play a huge role in this generally speaking, as consumers, we, you know, we’re suckers for convenience, right? If we can get it more convenient, we want it if we can get it more customized wants and needs, we want that and that does whoever can provide that. And, you know, Amazon’s is way ahead in this game right now. And they want Alexa to be your digital assistant that you know, sits on your I don’t know if it’s the left or right shoulder 24 seven, and you know, whisper to you, you know, how you should act and move and purchase right so that they’re pushing this massive plan. And you know, we can talk about levels here. But there’s already what 100 million Alexis out there in the world. So I don’t see that stopping at all, I only see that accelerating for sure. And I think one of the core reasons for how fast this adoption will accelerate and to what extent the AI assistant digital assistants, whether we want to call them what role they’re able to play in our lives will, to a very large extent depend on legislation, and what our governments will allow? Absolutely. I want to read something from the books. It’s from your chapter. And it says these human workers will in effect, have an AI boss telling them what to do evaluating their work, and ultimately deciding whether they deserve a raise a bonus, a warning or termination. I think in some industries, where there’s high level of automation, I don’t know if they, you know, what kind of workers will still be working in a factory where there’s so much automation, that technology is your boss, what industries Do you see where the role of technology will be much higher, let’s say, you know, 98% of your employees are AI robot robots machines, and maybe one or two or 5% are humans. So I guess ultimately, it’s gonna come down to cost. And so in some cases, you are able to automate something, but you don’t do it, because it’s actually still cheaper to have a human being doing it, at least for now. And then, you know, at a certain point, maybe technology will be able to take over if there’s an incentive to develop a cost effective enough technology. And maybe there isn’t, depending on, you know, the cost of the human labor hand. So, but it points to the notion of the freelancer right, which is, you know, there’s one study that suggests that it by 27 50% of the American workforce will be freelancers working in the gig economy, right. Again, Coronavirus here that’s accelerating this for sure. With these incredible terrible numbers we see upon employment, right and the you know, notion of a cakewalk, and being a freelancer is great if you have real unique skill sets, and you can choose your jobs, and you can have a really great paycheck come out of it as well. But for the majority of people being a freelancer and being part of the gig economy that is need that is not want, and that will accelerate. And that will increase dramatically. And to the extent we already see what the Googles of the world, they have more contractors than they have full time employees, right, because they don’t need to provide the same salaries and the same benefits to them. So it’s much more cost effective for them to do that. So unless our legislators do something about this, there’s no doubt this will be to like the 90 plus percent degree be the predominant way that human beings will be working, they know down the line here and whether they will be able to do that in a guess even more in a better way than what is currently the case for the majority I think will depend on whether they will be able to unionize. And I think guess for unions, this is their chance to really come back and claim a spot in history that they used to have as well, but they have sort of lost over the last two years. I completely am blown away with some of the possibilities that are possible in the world of tomorrow. And hopefully, we’ll have better mechanisms of predicting disease and coming up with treatments and cures and things that are unsolvable right now. Like right now. I think we’re literally at the mercy of many different elements around us and we’re unable to do anything but hopefully hope is something hope an action that people take is something that keeps us going forward. Chris, I know we’re limited on time and tell us more about Singularity University and where people can check your work out, Singularity University out and some of the ways they can start learning and engaging with the university. It’s a great time to learn Yeah, absolutely. So we’re an educational institution and our education programs focus on how to leverage technology to solve the really big problems in the world, what we call the global grand challenges and you can check singularity Nordic out issue nordic.org, which is based in the Nordic countries here out of Copenhagen, there’s an su.org as well, which is global, if you like. What we do is similar around the world, we have education programs to help people understand technologies better and more importantly, understand how they can leverage the technologies both on a societal organizational and individual level to make a positive impact in the world. There’s also the podcast I recently started in collaboration with Singularity University called the corporate innovation podcast you can find it on your streaming services of choice where every week I’m talking to a world leading innovator with a lot of innovation dirt under their nails to really understand how to think innovation in order to create 10 x impact so I couldn’t wait definitely recommend them to check that out as well. Amazing. a quiz thank you so much for your time and helping us understand where we’re headed. Again, everybody grab a copy of Aftershock is available on Amazon. And it’s really a great read if you want to understand what forces shape the future and what you should do and how things are evolving. Chris cannot thank you enough for taking the time for us. Thank you so much, and you have an amazing time and hopefully we’ll catch up in the future. Wonderful. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. Thank you. Hey, friend, this is Ian Khan. If you liked what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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