About Sohail Inayatullah Professor Sohail Inayatullah
/sə’heɪl ɪnaɪʌ’tʊla/, a political scientist, is Professor at Tamkang University, Taipei (Graduate Institute of Futures Studies) and Associate, Melbourne Business School, The University of Melbourne. From 2001-2020, he was Adjunct Professor from the University of the Sunshine Coast, Australia. From 2011-2014, he was Adjunct Professor at the Centre for policing, counter-terrorism and intelligence, Macquarie University, Sydney. In 1999, he was the UNESCO Chair in European Studies at the University of Trier, Germany.
In 2016, Professor Inayatullah was awarded the first UNESCO Chair in Futures Studies. In 2010, he was awarded the Laurel award for all-time best futurist by the Shaping Tomorrow Foresight Network. In March 2011, he was awarded an honorary doctorate by Universiti Sains Malaysia, Penang. He received his doctorate from the University of Hawaii in 1990. Inayatullah has lived in Islamabad, Pakistan; Bloomington, Indiana; Flushing, New York; Geneva, Switzerland; Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia; Honolulu, Hawaii; and Brisbane and Mooloolaba, Australia. Inayatullah is the Editor-in-Chief of the Journal of Futures Studies and on the editorial boards of Futures, Prout Journal, East West Affairs, World Future Review, and Foresight.
He has written more than 350 journal articles, book chapters, encyclopedia entries and magazine editorials. His articles have been translated into a variety of languages, including Catalan, Spanish, Urdu, Hindi, Bengali, Italian, Japanese, Russian, Indonesian, Farsi, Arabic, and Mandarin.
Inayatullah has also written and co-edited twenty-two books/cdroms, including: What Works: Case Studies in the Practice of Foresight; CLA 2.0: Transformative Research in Theory and Practice (2015); Questioning the Future: Methods and Tools for Organizational and Societal Transformation (2007); and, Macrohistory and Macrohistorians: Perspectives on Individual, Social, and Civilizational Change (1997).
His latest (2018) book is Asia 2038: Ten Disruptions That Change Everything. Visit Sohail at https://www.metafuture.org
Full Transcript : Hello friends welcome to a brand new episode of the Ian Khan show. This show is about future it’s about innovation technology, and really how to create tomorrow with all the knowledge and information that we can have today as part of this series on interviewing contributors to the recent book aftershock. And today’s guest is a good friend of mine, fellow futurist and one of the world’s most renowned authorities on futurism. So he’ll unipolar please give a big campus soil. High soil in I told the futures that I’ve been waiting to talk to welcome to the Ian Khan show. How are you today? I’m fantastic. Thanks so much again. Great to connect.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
So soil this is happening because off aftershock we’re connected have a coffee, too. We’re literally bound together by this book that john shorter has put together. And it’s such an humbling and incredible experience for me to talk to everybody who’s contributed to the books, I’m having amazing conversations with everybody. And I’ve been waiting to speak to you because your pieces in the book, your piece is one of the longest and the most comprehensive piece. I loved reading it. I’m reading everyone’s piece that I’m speaking to. So consider me a little bit well informed about what’s happening. But I still cannot predict anything about tomorrow. It’s been a great learning experience, though. So tell us about yourself your resume so impressed. I want to see which parts of it will you highlight? Who are who is sailing. I told him I won’t do it in context to talk though. I was a high school student, his National School of Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. And my high school 11 three t shirts with Richard Dr. Frank Shepard showed us this video. And this is amazing couple walking in a beautiful forest. romantic music you think Oh, this is so beautiful, serene. They sit down to have a picnic. The camera zooms in there turn around, and they’re robots. And for 15 year old, I said, Oh my god, what just happened? I mean, it was just stunning. And so that was really Toffler forced us disrupted our view of what romance in the future could be like. So he was really as a high school student. The first time I would say, conceptual futures. I was reading science fiction, but this was different. Science Fiction was far away. We know this is today, you’re about to change. So that got me into futures thinking. And then I went to Hawaii in 1976 took a course in future studies by Jim data. And then went on to the Master’s in an alternative futures and part of that Master’s was an internship for six months with the Hawaii judiciary and I stayed 10 years. So it was the intern who came to dinner and never left. Yeah. Incredible. Incredible. So back in the day when you first watch toddlers film, what was the world like back then? And when had the book so the book came out about 50 years ago. And that’s what was early 70s. It was early 70s. So technology as we see it today wasn’t available everywhere like it, it really wasn’t, it must have been quite a different thing than was after Vietnam War. It was issues around then nuclearization. China’s a large Communist Party. Those are some of the issues that everyone was talking about, is like under development with the poor countries ever get wealthy. When I went to the high school soon to Singapore to play basketball. There are people selling drugs on the street. After basketball game, someone came up to me said would you like heroin? I said no, I’m 15. I mean, it was just so stunning and inappropriate. I can’t imagine in 2020 that ever happening in Singapore? The very different time that? Absolutely. So today, we are here in 2020. And by the time this this video goes on air in the next few weeks, I hope we’ve overcome the impact of COVID-19 immediate, you know, the world has at least opened up. But we’re battling with something we would never have thought about that is going to happen at such a big scale. There’s many conspiracy theories. There’s many theories of you know, what has happened, why has it happened and the media is full of it. There’s there’s all kinds of information available online. But in terms of predicting tomorrow in terms of creating an informed decision about the future, I think, for organizations especially, and I’ve been reading your piece here as well, there has to be a process. Isn’t that right? You want to our notion is futures literacy. So if someone says what do you think about the future I said, Well, why do you care? If they’re brilliant in physics that day Doesn’t mean to have literacy about the future. So futures literacy has a structured process. And we take organizations, individuals, countries through this foresight process. So prediction is kind of the first part, it’s a fascination about the future. And we want to make it rigorous, robust, and ultimately, far more useful to the person and the decision maker. So if you look back at the 60s, it was all about prediction. And by 70s, it said, Oh, my God, all these predictions are wrong. Partly because once you predict it’s self fulfilling, and people change. So then we move to scenarios. But the 80s 90s, the last 20 years and said, well, it’s not just about scenarios, what do you do with a scenario? Are we able to make the transition if we see a future we like, or a future we don’t like? So we’ve now moved to narrative foresight, what stories can we tell they create the difference? So the methodology I use is causal analysis or CLA, always finding the underneath underlying metaphor to helps me make the change. So for example, one group, this is a story I tell a lot, we were looking at what the implications of alternative means cellular agriculture, in vitro meat. And so it was funded by a nation state, and we ran the farming Federation and scientists to that. And I said, Okay, let’s pretend 50% of people by 2030, or vegan, are involved in beyond meat type stuff, right? Fair, emerging issue. So that’s it, what what do you think’s going to happen? What should we do? And there were a bit that was a trivial, but they were playful a little bit as well. scenario. One was what we killed the vegans said, Okay, that’s done, what scenario two is it will kill the scientists. So what scenario to use and will kill the coffee drinkers. I said, What’s the correlation? Is there the early adopters, inner city, coffee drinkers, early adopters of new technologies, then it became very clear to me, the scenarios themselves, or predictions themselves have no utility. Because once we give that they went back to defend, defend, defend my way of life, as a farmer is being challenged, this is scary stuff, I’m going to shut down and eliminate the threat. So our goal then is, of course, they feel injustice, they’re not ready for this predictions are useless, snails are useless. We have to find ways where they can innovate, become part of the process and adds their power. So foresight really done well. It’s not about prediction, is about emancipation. So our goal with people who don’t have power, how do we get them to move towards innovation, to move towards feeling their core. And so you’ve you’ve, you’ve authored a lot of different papers, and you’ve you’ve you know, authored very defined pieces of content that we can use as a reference for decades, like you, you literally create your body of a body of knowledge there, what have been some of your experiences, when, when when can we maybe it may be a use case, which you just mentioned one as well. But something more, something more I want to I want to revisit our viewers to understand that the process of being a futurist or or having foresight or creating or delivering an outcome or through a scenario situation. There’s, there’s a lot to it. And there’s a lot of unknowns to it as well, because many times people expect that as a futurist, you know it all and you’re going to come up with a prediction, like Nostradamus, and you’re and you’re going to prophesize something. And that’s how people look at generally, as futurists, I think futures generally work on a lot of data and a lot of information. I don’t know if Toffler and how much information did Toffler had back in the day when he wrote, wrote or, you know, wrote his books, but helped me understand this helped me understand this. The tougher era was different, right? They were trying to get people to think about what now has become normal scenarios, visioning disruption. In our era, it’s very different. What I tell people, our goal is not to be the smartest one in the room. I don’t have to explain to anyone the room, I have to have the ability to get very smart people to think differently. So I’m not there to impress them with data. I’m there to get them. Okay, you’re good at this. But maybe you’re not good at that. And so this is the challenge of what I call the use future. Practice we’re doing, it doesn’t work, but we keep on doing it. And that practice is uncomfortable to let go of, because we have a narrative that tells us here’s how we should do it. So I work with schools everywhere. I Ask them. Tell me what’s your core metaphors? And they say things like castle surrounded by hungry wolves. And I said, What do you mean? They said, we’re in a beautiful castle, the Minister, the Secretary of Education, all the principals were collegial. We have a community, but outside of the hungry wolves, parents, teachers, students media. So then is that a use future? Because they’re not engaged with stakeholders, right? They’re defending. So then we ask, okay, that’s not working for you. What’s a better story? Is it the playground? Is it a circus? Is it from castle to to a gaming system? So there’s no right answer here. When I was working in Norway, working with the Ministry there, they suggested, well, actually, it’s the jazz band. And the jazz band, every students, we engage, so they become excellent. But the real value added is all the students working together to create new music, or in fact, in our language, new innovation, new value. So this is the structure processing, what today is the use future? Once I figure that out, then I go to what’s the disruption? What might change what we know, you know, is it new technologies a demographic shift? Is it pandemic? Once I’ve done that, then I asked, okay, well, how do you make sense of all this information? Then we have scenarios. And then we go to vision, where do you wish to go and and how did we get there? So the very structure process that helps people get a handle on foresight, otherwise, it’s endless ideas. No one knows what to do. It’s all scattered. And the goal in that scattered game is who’s the expert. He was co created shared knowledge, which gets everyone involved in excited. Absolutely no, in in the book in, and I should point out to everybody that we’re talking because so you’ve written a really nice, almost an ending article in aftershock. A book that’s recently come out and F sharp was put together by a friend, john shorter, who was inspired by what Alvin Toffler did about 50 years ago with his book Future Shock. And so he reached out to a ton of people, I think there’s about 50 plus futurists experts who came together, route content, route their thoughts and ideas. And it’s all here in aftershock. And we’re talking because we both are an aftershock, and we’re capturing what aftershock is all about. Now, you’ve written a lot about this. And I was reading you know, the mantra, there’s, there’s a few different processes that you’ve written about. So there’s six steps, I believe, as far as I can I read in your in your methodology of creating the future, you touched on some of them before. But but there’s a very specific process that you’ve talked about making the vision real, the narrative which you just talked about the mantra process, and you write many, many amazing things in there. If Can you help us understand your process that you’ve designed, or for so many years and decades of experience? For many teachers, Johan galtung, data Elise boulding, avaient. Author. So what happens so you come up with your country, we’ve done this for countries for mayors, corporations, and you come up with this vision, and you’ve now done your scenarios, right? Here’s the no change, marginal change, adaptive change, radical change. So you’ve done all this work. But our conclusion, people say, Well, what do I do next? And that’s the zone of proximal, your zone of control zone of proximal development. So then they say, Well, what do you do next? Depends on you. So this will What do we do? Yeah. So then there’s this narrative and mantra process. So I had one person executive took one of my courses, and we were looking at the future of technology. It was for a high tech company. And she said, This is great. But I can’t think about that as the CFO. I said, so what are you thinking about? She was actually I’m very angry with my husband. I go, I so we tell me more. She goes, Well, I said, well, what’s your she told me the situation? Then I said, so what’s the narrative? She’s the narrative issue is I want to leave them because he wasn’t there when I had she had cancer. So I said, Well, why don’t you just leave him? She goes, well, that conflicts with her other self being the good girl, her mom said, Never leave the marriage. So then we said, okay, what’s the metaphor you want? She was I want to jump in a Ferrari and get out. So now we’re going from the old story, which is imprisoned by the situation, to a better story, being in the Ferrari and getting out. So that’s the rational part, right? That’s the rational decision making here’s a better story with better strategy. So if it’s a Ferrari, I said, What do you do? She was well, I filed the divorce papers. I do all that stuff. Done. The next day, but that conflicts with one of our other selves. So organizations often can’t transform, because they have conflicting visions, conflicting identities. So in the mantra process, we take them through this process where they go deep into their, to their self from the future, their deeper self. And there’s a sound from any tradition you can use. And then her new story was in a carriage with the door open. So meaning she’s going to gently go away, not with anger, and he’s invited to come with it. So this becomes the transformational part. At the CEO level, I had one CEO and I’ve told the story before. He said, I never know when I enter a business meeting, what the rules are anymore. If it’s in Beijing, it’s these rules in Jakarta is these rules, neuroses rules I no longer know. So I said, Okay, what’s your defining metaphor? He goes, Well, I used to be a tennis player was perfect on grass court. I said great, because I no longer know which court I’m about to play on. So merely doing scenario playing just tells me how the world is changing rise of Asia, peer to peer informatics, robotics pandemics, me because I know all that. So that is better story was the man who can play on many courts. So you can play on clay, grass, etc. So that’s it. Okay, if that’s your new story, what do you need to do? He said, Oh, I need to up my skill set around emotional intelligence, spiritual intelligence. So the narrative sets up the next steps. So we do the scenarios, and then we can find a new story, then we entered a kind of altered state where we go deep within, and that sets up where we need to go further. So traditional strategy was all data driven. Like a chess set? Yeah. We’re saying no, the new strategy should be like mountaintop looking alternatives, then going deep in the cave, finding the new story, then coming out and being of service. So as I think as as you mentioned earlier, as well, what you do is you’re you’re not the smartest person in the room, and you don’t want to be the smartest person in the room. No. And you just want to bring out the best in all the people who are out there driving an organization doing whatever they’re doing. And that’s, that’s such a huge that’s so profound for me to learn. Because let me you know, generally you you look at, okay, what are you know, as a futurist, what are the main technology trends? Okay, what’s coming down the pipeline, and it’s all about technology. I’ll tell you about something interesting. I have, I’ve been working on something, it’s called the future readiness score. It’s in its initial stages of kind of development, and it’s out there, but it’s not out there. And the future readiness score is a metric, a KPI, a number that organizations can get after they do an assessment of eight different pillars. q&a. Do you have this? No. Okay, plus five, do you have this? No, minus five, and so on. I love it. So one pillar of that is technology, just one pillar, the rest are engagement. It’s an era of changing, you know, how engagement works. Engagement is sales, marketing, relationship, building PR brand, it’s all stacked under engagement. You Now you also have a people pillar people is how do you hire people? How do you attract the talent that resonates with your message as an organization? How do you sync? How do you What’s your corporate culture, and so on? Two, you’ve got accountability as one you’ve got execution as one pillar, you’ve got culture as one pillar. And so all of these come together. And so only one of them I couldn’t make everything technology based. But one of them for me, is technology, how, how much technology do you use? What platforms do you use? And so in the end, an organization gets something called a future readiness score. My score is 850. And then I categorize them into one of four categories that you’re still growing, you’re up ahead, you’re way ahead. And I really want organizations to have a measurement of where they are today and where they’re going. Because I feel a measurement of the future is missing. I agree with you 100%. Please, when we change the story, we still can you have a new narrative, how you measure it, because we count Well, we count so I’m 100% agree with you. So I always ask them, if you change, you do your scenarios, you do your visioning, do the metaphor process. You now have a new narrative. So if you’re new narrative education is like a jazz man. Well, how will you measure that? Because if you don’t find a new measurement, just what you’re doing, the accountants will come in and they’ll measure what they used to do. All the futures work is wasted. Yeah, so we must say yes to the future readiness score, because here’s the vision, how will you make it real? What’s a better new measurement? Yeah. And I just think that’s brilliant, thank you. And I just feel that the, you know, the, the big hoo ha with the, with understanding the future needs to be simplified a little bit, because people always have an unrealistic expectation that you’re going to do some magic as a futurist or as a as a person with foresight. But we have to be practical, we have to be real, with coming up with all this knowledge, all these scenarios, all the possibilities, so that people can action it I was part of a of an exercise by one of the government bodies in Dubai, I think it was last year. And they deal with roads and transportation and what this will be so they were doing an exercise with, and I was just part of it, it wasn’t run by me, I was part of the whole thing. Where will Dubai be by 2071? And that’s the formation of their it’s 100 years of their, of the nation. So centenary. And it was incredible. You know, you come up with for four different scenarios. Where would the transportation, how will people live? They live in a bubble, they’ll you know, a bubble dome, that was one of the scenarios or they live underground. And then you start understanding what the direction of the organization should be, the government should be then leaders start, you know, thinking in that direction, even if they haven’t done that. So I think doing this process should be something that organizations do every year, every year management and sea level leaders should get together and say, Hey, where are we today? As compared to where look at COVID-19? I mean, what are your thoughts on how this changes? Everything for organizations? There’s no playbook for there’s no pandemic playbook. Where do you think we should go next? I mean, in terms of what you were saying, and looking to Toffler, when I started out first, you know, in my mid 80s, just starting to do workshops, and my own professor, it was a hard sell. And I remember my first speech, the CEO fell asleep. My second speech, the Chief Justice fell asleep. Oh, my God. I mean, I sit in the room and I just kept on going, you know, I was not responsive to the changing world. And then finally it okay. They actually don’t want long speeches, they want insights. Now in that era, futures was what crazy people talked about visionaries, Dreamers. And then once you start with the fall of Berlin, wall, Asia, financial crisis, SARS, global financial crisis, internet genomics, it actually Suddenly, the story we’ve been telling that we’re in different times, no longer seems strange. Like, if you look at one of the groups that was the quickest to design adapt was Taiwan. Why? I was in Taiwan during SARS. So they remember that event is okay. We got caught out once, we will not be caught out twice. The minute the data came in from one, they were ready. So this is where the future happened. Once you think, okay, we’re going to be prepared. Option two, those of us who have been working in the pandemic field, everyone’s been saying this for 20 years. It’s not a black swan, but it’s still considered something crazy. So that’s our task in the future. So how do I get prime ministers, governors ministers to actually this is not a crazy event, be prepared. So when we succeeded, we’ve done with policing with merging services, then they’re ready. And they all tell us, it was much easier. We were mostly ready, mentally ready, strategically ready. Even if it’s still difficult, we’re kind of ready and we can act in wiser ways. And the wiser ways to me means I’m inclusive of everyone as opposed to here’s the good guys or the bad guys. There’s a problem we solved. So this is where futures as Toffler set up the framework, but you know, he wasn’t around in a sense to see how dramatically has changed. And so now for me with your question, are challenges scenarios I’ve been working on with a piece with scenario one is zombie apocalypse. That’s what it feels like to people. Right? Everyone on the run, zombies are coming. Oh, yeah. There are two is the big toss. We rest this year. Next year. We’re on warp drive level and work 50 conferences per day. Yeah, yeah. Stereo three is the Global Health reawakening. So the year of arrest leads to systemic change, where we look at what’s wrong with capitalism, we look at climate change. We look at our own lives and say, here’s the things I learned during it. Here’s how we want to change to scenario three becomes a real possibility of something different happening. So that’s the one I want to see of course, scenario four is mutate, mutate, seven years depression, recession. We’re all depressed forever. So, the serial process, okay, here’s four possibilities. Where do I want to play? If I’m the head of a company, where do I want to be business as usual and lightspeed next year, or here’s my chance to be part of the global health awakening? What am I doing? How am I treating people, that becomes a really exciting place for innovation? The degree agree, I completely agree I really might take on COVID is is the same as many other people but I do feel it’s a it’s more of a testing ground. It’s it’s, it’s for us to test our resilience, it’s for us to find out who we are and what we’re made of. It’s, I think, for of course, organizational wise business and companies. It’s all been Oh, it’s funny. You know, they’re how they are suffering. But I think a big test for people to know how they work under pressure. That is that has come from somewhere. Unbelievable, and it’s getting you better ready, it’s getting you hardened. You know, in all our futures workshops, we put them in gaming situations, I remember 10 years ago, I was in October with RCMP. Yeah. And we ran them through a whole range of gaming stuff. And I have one game where it’s called a Sarkar key, some group get worker tools, some get weapons, some get books, some get money. And the goal is to build a successful civilization. And 70% of time the Warriors get the fake guns and kill everyone. They get frustrated with the lack of innovation. And this time, I was amazed, I left the game on goal an extra 10 minutes, and no one would kill themselves. Everyone can negotiate for better outcomes. And of course, RCMP, like any group has issues message asked later, folks are different. Yeah. And so and then they talked about as Canadians as police leaders, they’re trained first immediately to engage. So their narrative, and they told me the history of their narrative is so different history of other other policing organizations. So it’s something really good where you’re working to the gaming situations, get people ready. Otherwise, it’s just cognitive. So we’re doing all a box full of body, mind and spirit futures. I love that. I’m actually right now I since COVID, just interesting. Maybe it is for you. I am running a series of live stream, leadership, live stream COVID-19. Leadership live streams are every Wednesday, I’m getting together five more people. I’m the sixth one. And we meet on a live stream. And we talk about a specific industry. And so people have been asking for Yes. where they’ve been asking. And my entire take is, I want us to get ready for after COVID-19 goes over how do we bounce back? And some people say why are you thinking about that we’re still entering into it. And I see because we must, that’s what we should focus on. Because otherwise, we’ll just be depressed and sad. And we’ll just go crazy. You’ve got to focus on the future on something big. Because we will be there let’s you know, so it’s it’s creating a little bit of movement. And I love it. We have about about 500 plus people on the livestream. And it’s nice to talk to that that’s our role as futurists, definitely there’s emergency manager people, right? They’re doing the frontline stuff. There’s people doing the good Mac, the big macro patterns, that’s important. But all this is a yes afterwards exactly what you’re doing. Let’s prepare for the solutions. And we don’t discount what others are doing. But we’re doing the foresight part. That’s the value added we bring to the planet to every organization helping prepare for the new future. And it’s fantastic what you’re doing. Absolutely. Thank you. So I know we’re out of time, I could talk to you for hours and hours and hours. But tell me a little bit about if you had to give young people advice on how to become futurists. And I really believe everybody is one. What should they do? Like what’s the framework of life they should be in to be able to say, this is what I want. This is what I can do. This is where I’m going. If you know if you know what I mean. There’s two answers. One is the fictitious inappropriate answer. I’ll give you that first. You know, probably the answer is go join organized crime. Well, that’s what I speak in law enforcement meetings all the time. And that’s how I start off my speech. And they say Why? Well, it’s adaptable. HR, flexible, looking for emerging issues, always where the openings are market sensitive. And given the rate of technological growth, that’s where the money and the action will be. And of course, then everyone gets to press this way. I’m a senior detective. Don’t tell people. They step back that was the joke answer. The real answer is figure out your life narrative. Do you wish to be? Do this scenario start to work on your vision? You know, so this is the balance between here’s where I want to be. And here’s how the world is changing, right? Those in the Islamic world say trust in Allah tire camp. Oh, you’re doing both living from dream and vision and very clear about how the material world is changing and what the possibilities are Iran something for some young students two years ago, the one I remember the most, I said, so what do you want to be? She was 15. I said, What do you want to be when you grow up? She was well, I’m 25. I want to be the CEO of a tea coffee. This is green tea companies, although he has a fantastic jolly bee is that we did the visioning Park, she’s very clear 10 years to get there. And I said, Okay, what are you doing today to get there? She said, Of course maths and science, I said. And I said, What’s your core metaphor? Then she stopped. And she said, Oh, I’m in a room with the blinds are shut. It’s a dark room. And then she burst out in tears. And her friends were there started to cry. I said, so, you know, I waited I said, why is that narrative wrong? She was a just hit me. You can’t become a CEO and 10 years with math and sciences your core skills if the room is shut up, huh? Well, we’re interesting. Yeah. Then I said okay, look at your friends around you. And then she said I said, What’s the better narrative She goes, let the sun shine now she has a story but in our work, what is the story beach is a strategy that Okay, I need to learn other skills, not just science and technology, math skills, I need to learn emotional skills, etc, etc. So this is with young people it’s figuring out here’s where I want to go Am I doing the right material things? If not, what do I need to do differently? So clearly avoid organized crime do something that helps people and get the skills Absolutely. I really have big hopes from young people and you know, the next generation and we’re doing all we can but but they’re the ones that will I think take over and I really feel they need all the all the skills that we can give them very intelligent I love the the newer kids and newer generations, they’re all very 100 times cleverer than I am like my younger nieces, nephews, my kids. And so it needs to be seen what the world of tomorrow is like. So thank you so much. Where can we find more about you or look you up on meta future.org or if you google us to health futurist and we have a new online course meta future school that teachable calm so the people want to learn the skills they just go there and do that. Okay. Okie dokie. All right, thank you so much. I love it. And everybody get a copy of Aftershock. It’s available on my coffee here table, aftershock book to read. I love it. Thank you so much for being a contributor here. And it’s awesome to read it to go through it. I think it’s got incredible stuff in there. So thank you so much. I’m indebted to you. I really appreciate it. I’m sure everybody’s gonna love this episode. So you take care and we’ll hear from you soon. Thanks so much. Hey, friend, this is Ian Khan. If you like what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
