Donna Dupont, Chief Strategist, Foresight & Design at Purple Compass with Ian Khan Futurist.
In this episode i speak with Donna Dupont, a co-contributor to the recent book “After Shock”.
Bio
As the Founder and Chief Strategist in Foresight & Design for Purple Compass, Donna Dupont brings skills and insights developed over 20 years working with leaders in healthcare, emergency management, government public policy, strategic planning and program design. She has facilitated a range of foresight and design activities for clients in healthcare, emergency management and military.
Donna’s interests are at the intersection between climate change adaptation, disaster risk reduction and sustainable development. Her aim is to collaborate with communities and organizations, and use strategic foresight and design methods to empower and strengthen local capacity, health services, public safety and security.
Prior to Purple Compass, Donna held a variety of senior roles within Ontario’s Ministry of Health and Long-Term Care in both healthcare and emergency management. She also worked on the front-lines as a Registered Respiratory Therapist during the SARS crisis. Donna is a recipient of seven government awards at the provincial and federal level for outstanding achievement, excellence and partner relations in policy and strategic planning.
Donna is a Master of Design candidate in Strategic Foresight & Innovation (2020) at OCAD University, has a BHA in Health Services Management from Ryerson University, and completed continuing education with Harvard Humanitarian Academy, United Nations Institute for Training and Research and the Stockholm Resilience Centre. She is a member of the Association of Professional Futurists (APF), International Association of Emergency Managers (IAEM), and the Canadian Risks & Hazards Network (CRHNet).
About After Shock
The world’s foremost futurists reflect on 50 years of Future Shock—and look ahead to the next 50
Contributors include:
Alan Kay
Aaron Frank
Adrienne Mayor
Alexander Mankowsky
Alexandra Ivanovitch
Alisha Bhagat
Amy Zalman
Anders Sorman-Nilsson
Andra Keay
Andrew Curry
Andy Hines
Anita Sengupta
Anne Lise Kjaer
Aris Persidis
Aubrey de Grey
Barry O’Reilly
Barry Vacker
Bill Davidow
Bill Diamond
Bryan Alexander
Byron Reese
Carlos Osorio
Carver Mead
Cat Tully
Cindy Frewen
Clem Bezold
Daniel Burrus
Daniel Levine
David Brin
David Guston
David Krakauer
David J. Staley
David Weinberger
Deb Westphal
Diane M. Francis
Donna Dupont
Eleanor “Nell” Watson
Eric Daimler
Erica Bol
Erik Qualman
Fotis Sotiropoulos
George Gilder
Grady Booch
Gray Scott
Hannes Sjoblad
Harish Natarajan
Hazel Henderson
Helen Messier
Ian Khan
Ignacio Pena
Jack Uldrich
James Canton
Jane McGonigal
Jason Jackson
Jason Schenker
Jay Gambetta
Jeff Eisenach
Jeffrey C. Bauer
Jerome Glenn
Jerry Fishenden
Joe Dispenza
Joe Tankersley
Joel Garreau
John L. Petersen
John M. Smart
John Sack
John Sanei
John Schroeter
Jonathan Venn
José Morey
Kaitlyn Sadtler
Kirk Borne
Klee Irwin
Kris Østergaard
Lisa Bodell
Maciej Kranz
Martin Guigui
Martin Rees
Maggie Greyson
Michael Tomczyk
Michel Laberge
Mick Ebeling
Moon Ribas
Naveen Jain
Neil Jacobstein
Newt Gingrich
Patricia Lustig & Gill Ringland
Paul Saffo
Paul Stimers
Po Bronson & Arvind Gupta
Ray Kurzweil
Rebecca Costa
Richard Browning
Richard Slaughter
Richard Watson
Richard Yonck
Rodrigo Nieto Gómez
Rohit Bhargava
Ross Dawson
Ruth Miller
Sanjiv Chopra & Pankaj K Vij
Sohail Inayatullah
Sridhar Mahadevan
Stan Rosen
Stephanie Mehta
Steve Waite
Tanya Accone
Terrence (Terry) Sejnowski
Teun Koetsier
Theodore Jay Gordon
Thomas Frey
Timothy Chou
Vikram Mansharamani
Wolfgang Fengler
Zoltan Istvan
Publication Details
ISBN Print: 978-0-9997364-4-9
ISBN eBook: 978-0-9997364-5-6
Full Transcript : Hi friends this is Ian Khan and you’re listening to the Ian Khan show. And this is an aftershock special episode. In today’s episode I’m speaking with Donna DuPont, who’s the founder and chief strategist and foresight in design for purple compass. with a focus on disaster risk management and sustainable development. Donna is in the final stage of completing her master of design and strategic foresight and innovation at OCAD University and she lives in Toronto over to Donna. Donna. Welcome to the Ian Khan show. It is such a pleasure to have you now first of all, you and I are book contributors to this amazing book that came out some time ago aftershock, which was written 50 years now I want our listeners to understand 50 to five zero half a century ago gentleman named Alvin Toffler wrote a book called Future Shock in which he wrote about the future tomorrow the changes that will happen, and in aftershock we wrote about you and I and 50 other contributors wrote about our thoughts and ideas of Future Shock in the world we are living in.
So welcome to the show, and the special series featuring aftershock contributors. How are you today? Well, thank you for the invitation. And I’m doing well. I mean, considering the time that we’re living in right now and all of the change and the turbulence, I’m finding a way to, to manage day to day. Yeah, and I think a lot of people are trying to also figure out the new normal going forward. Now let’s talk about the new normal, you are a practicing futurist you. This is your work, you live futurism for a living, help us understand, is this something that is part of this incredible change that was supposed to happen that Oscar wrote about? Is this one of those things? You need? Specifically the pandemic? Yes, yes. Well, I mean, infectious disease type emergencies isn’t new. They’ve been around, we’ve had them before, but they are really complex type of emergencies. And so what we’ve learned from this particular experience is that a lot of our assumptions or perspectives, perceptions of what we thought would happen, are totally being challenged right now, in so many ways. And what we are seeing is a lot of the social and economic cascading consequences of this particular health emergency. And so I think for a lot of people, you know, and myself included working in the emergency management space, we’ve done scenarios, we’ve done pandemic planning, this is really challenging for our assumptions as well in so many different ways. And I think it is an incredible learning opportunity to to understand the broader system and the vulnerabilities that exist right now and to have conversations about the future, I believe. So know, one of the things that and I’ve spoken with so many incredible people who contributed to this book, one of the reasons being soil. So the other night de la, who’s based out of Australia, amazing futurist, and tons of other people. Now, everyone I’ve spoken to, from a futurism angle, is saying, Hey, you know, it was supposed to happen one way or the other, if it’s not, the pandemic, it’s going to be an asteroid, if it’s not an asteroid, it’s going to be a tsunami, it’s one thing or the other, that’ll keep on happening, because change is not changes constantly. The world has a very dynamic nature. And as we keep an eye in people in the world, we are we’re battling with just one specific event. There’s many other things happening in the world, which are great, which are good that probably Toffler wrote about in his books, as well. Tell me a little bit about Toffler and his work. Have you read his work intensively? Are you inspired by his work? Tell me about your experience? Well, I am inspired by taufers work, and I’m inspired from just the perspective of adaptation, and that changing environment and how, as a society, we need to adapt and evolve. And I think that’s an important concept that is not necessarily recognized a lot today, I think a lot of organizations, people really have a very, potentially a very static type of view of the system or the broader environment. And so don’t really think about it as constantly emerging or changing and don’t necessarily pick up on those signals in the system on whether or not those signals might be relevant to their personal lives or to their professional lives. And so I think that this I love the notion of this constant adaptation, and that we need to be mindful, we need to be aware and we need to be prepared to adapt and pivot. And I think that’s what we’re exactly seeing right now with COVID-19. We’re seeing a lot of different organizations and also people they’re everyone’s lives are shifting and based on this particular crisis, and so we are having to change our havior is the way we do business. And for a lot of organizations from a business perspective, they’re pivoting their business models, there’s a lot of uncertainty and they may need to redefine going into the future. So they will need a stronger, different vision post COVID. Amazing. I actually want to read something from your essay in the book that I think aligns with this, you say, and I’m quoting, as is true for many organizations, the emergency disaster management community has a tendency to think and behave in short term cycles moving from crisis to crisis stuck in the cycle of disaster response recovery loop, the knowledge gained from emergency events is not fully mobilized into long term planning, in anticipation of emerging and future risk. And this is what I want to ask you about, how do we get ready for future risk? How do we plan for future risk? It’s a good question, I think the first place to start is our perception of risk, and to really take a look and have those conversations about what is our perspective, our assumptions, our internal biases, and to take a more systems lens of looking at risk. And I see this kind of playing out right now with the pandemic. And you’ll see right now your different countries have different assessments of risk around the pandemic. And based on that risk, they’re making decisions around public health protection measures. And that’s an important assessment, right, because you’re going to see differences across the board. And some of those decisions might be influenced from economic lens, a political lens, there might be other issues at play that we’re not aware of. So I think the whole discussion around future risk needs to be to start with our perception, what we what we what are our biases, perspectives of risk, and then and have a conversation about what’s emerging. Right. And that requires new skill sets, new ways of engaging with risk. So not just looking at risk from a modeling perspective of predictive analytics, and just very limited variables, but to really recognize the complexity of systems and where the modeling the predictive models end is an opportunity to pick up with foresight methodology, to have more of that holistic view of what’s emerging around risk, and also identifying those areas of uncertainty. Because that can be a very problematic space for a lot of organizations, understanding how to work with uncertainty how to generate agency for change a lot of people if they’re uncertain than they just don’t go there or have that conversation. But I think it’s important to be open to having those those conversations. Now, does this have anything to do with how we’re able to use emerging technology to maybe accelerate this learning process, because I really believe the art and the skill of predictive modeling, predictive analytics, futurism foresight, it’s a very specific and narrow field practice by very few people, of people like yourself, experts, and they know what they’re doing. One of the challenges in the common world is that people are unable to see the future. they’re unable to just imagine 10 years from now or five years now, because people are so busy in their everyday lives, their job, their mortgage, their car payments. I mean, get this knowledge across to the common people. So they can say, Hey, COVID-19, here are the lessons that we can learn from it. And maybe now think in broader terms, what should we do? And technology being wonderful? Is technology a part of this? Yeah, well, technology also provides opportunities. So So I think it’s important to leverage technology. But I also think it’s important to understand the limitations of technology, right, and to recognize that and to be able to, to add to that in terms of a more inclusive approach to futures and engaging a larger audience. And that could be whole of society, which we’re seeing engaged right now in COVID-19. I think there needs to be a new way of having this conversation, perhaps perhaps making it less mysterious around futures and more about a dynamic conversation. Perhaps technology can be that tool to reach, you know, people within a network certainly is something that can be scaled, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be done in a digital environment. I think sometimes great conversations can happen in person, obviously limited right now. So I think there is a need to rethink how we democratize foresight and and make it relatable to make it accessible to the average person and somehow people can participate in conversations in different ways, other than perhaps a formal workshops are other methods that have been used. Yeah. And I you know what one of the things that we’ve seen to 2020 during this COVID crises that has been unleashed on humanity is how fast some things have progressed, have ideas of digital transformation, people using zoom and one of these platforms to communicate. And pre 2020 it was a nightmare talking to people about giving the example about the accounting industry, tons of my clients were getting got in the accounting industry, it’s really hard to move, get them to move from one place to the other, because that’s the nature of the business. But now things are moving. So the challenge has also brought upon acceleration of change rate. And that is so interesting, huh? Definitely, I think, especially the use of technology, this pandemic has certainly created a situation where people are forced to change. And so it’s definitely opened up a lot of new opportunities. I think many organizations and people have really tried to reimagine, you know, how they can conduct their day to day activities or the businesses on in a virtual way. So I think that’s, that’s wonderful to see him as well. You’ve asked some really critical questions and some really nice questions in your article. So you talk about accelerations and the pace of change that, hey, the increasing pace of environment change is more visible. But having said that, you’ve talked about I can’t help but ask and you’ve asked a few questions. Why does Why does our society lack the collective will to take out? Why are we not acting with urgency proportional to the scale of the threat? And we’re living that right now? How can we wake up from this sleep walk nightmare? Could we be suffering from normalcy bias, thinking that if you stay the course everything will go back to normal? No, my question to you is, have you found the answers to any of these questions? Well, I’m certainly seeking the answers. So. But I do know that many people and I’ve seen a number of articles talk about that there is no going back to normal. And so I think this normalcy bias is being challenged in a number of ways with COVID-19. And I think that’s quite fascinating. And certainly I’m connecting in with a lot of my colleagues, both in the futures space, but also in emergency management space to understand what their perspective is around all of this and get their insights on what’s transpiring. But with that need for the future for the profession as well. Yeah, absolutely. I also believe that many people are saying this is the new normal, the era that COVID-19 has created is the new normal, I have a problem with that. Because I don’t believe I think we’re in a transitionary phase, we are always in a phase of transition. And I think there’s somewhere else we need to go because we can be a normal, in a state of crises, I refuse to accept it. Because people are amazing, we do incredible work, we’ve surpassed all our challenges in the past. So there’s got to be something better ahead in our life. And we should strive for achieving that or getting there. So I think the new normal is up ahead. It’s in the future. And I think it’s, it’s about convincing people to see beyond the crises and saying, hey, everything’s gonna be alright, just work on your game, start thinking about what you want to do, act on it, and then move forward. That’s kind of my thought. I don’t know if you agree or not. You know, I agree with that. I think you’re quite right in that because I also see this as this is a turbulent time. And so there’s just so much activity happening, I think most people are just trying to keep pace. But this discussions have shifted in the last little while around recovery. And and so this is an interesting time, because this is the recovery phase of trying to find a way back. And I don’t think it will be, you know, back to the way it was, I think this is the the adjustment of the path towards that new normal. And I think along this path, this is the recovery side of the work we do in emergency management. This is where we’re really doing a lot of reflecting work, and we’re doing a lot of lessons learned. And so that’s an opportunity as well to help shape about that future trajectory. And the profession in emergency management is very much focused on a vision of resiliency, and sustainability. And so I think my question is, while we’re recovering, what’s that bigger vision? What does that resilient vision look like, given what we’ve learned with COVID-19? And this whole of society type of approach that was needed to really respond to the pandemic? And what are those relationships going to look like with communities with businesses going forward? And so I think it’s an interesting time and I agree, we are just starting to perhaps head down that path and around what that future could be. If you can share, maybe help us understand what our business community’s thinking right now maybe help us understand you know, some conversations that you’re having with your clients? And how are you helping them understand, you know, here’s how you unpack today’s era and how you get out of it. I just want our audiences to learn from you, how do you do it as a futurist, and then maybe start thinking in that direction? I think a lot of the conversations I’ve been having with my clients have been around how to navigate this, obviously, they’re thinking about it from a short term recovery. So more near term foresight, and just how to pivot how to adapt. So it’s a little bit of a combination of just not not just foresight, but a bit of adaptation, and a bit of pivoting business models. So it’s been that kind of learning. But in terms of the longer view post COVID. I think that where a lot of our conversations have been going is around, what could the environment that future operational environment look like? What are the issues that we’re seeing emerge? And how is that going to impact the business in those environment? And will those businesses be sustainable? Will they be relevant and given what’s happening in the broader system shifts? And so I’m thinking and specifically around shoes of we’re seeing cyber issues, right, I have some clients that deal a lot in the information, space, and cyberspace. And so with all of these new types of behaviors happening in that space, what does that mean, for a lot of organizations, the way they do their business, if they have to maintain a business online, virtually what different new types of capabilities or processes need to be in place, what new functions and maybe new resources. So that’s just one example. But I think that a lot of organizations are really trying to understand in the near term around how to pivot their business model. So this is where I think scenarios can be helpful. And I tend to work with critical uncertainties in the near term, and just to create to really work on those areas where there’s the most impact to the business, and then to facilitate and have those conversations to get at the some deeper insights that could help pivot their business model. They may not have a full vision of where they would like to take it. But at least they have a sense with some of the dimensions of uncertainty where they may need to navigate. Absolutely, yeah. And it in a very similar rhetoric needs from clients is know where do we go next? What do we do next? I really believe everybody needs to become a futurist have a sword. I mean, business leaders especially have to be able to anticipate change. They’ve got to be able to anticipate what happens in business and how to react to it. It’s a part of what they’ve signed up for. So no, readily said, Donna, thank you so much for joining us again. I want to point out to viewers, that aftershock is available on Amazon, I believe it’s available now it was on pre orders now and you myself 50 Plus, other amazing people have contributed to this book. I really believe this is a read of a lifetime. If you read and have a copy of Aftershock, you really will understand many different things. I’ve interviewed people who are medical doctors, to scientists to people who are the head of SETI yourself. There’s incredible people in this series, quite a bit aftershock. So I really am suggesting to everybody buy a copy of Aftershock. And if you don’t have the money to buy it, tell me send me a message. And I will send you a copy of Aftershock. I have a few extra copies lying around. I don’t I know, we don’t have a lot of time with you. But help us finally tell us maybe give us three things give us or three or four or two things that we should do right away, to change our tomorrow to change our future to make it better to get into this tomorrow where we perhaps control things or have a better outcome than what we have today. If that makes sense? Well, I think the first place to start is just awareness, you know, starting with oneself and personal awareness of the environment, what’s shifting around you and and how that’s having an impact on your day to day life. I think then the second part would be the next layer in terms of your work, right and awareness around the impacts of shifting environment in your work, and then really being open to different ways of exploring the future. So what I mean is that really pay attention to what’s shifting, you know, in the environment and think about what does that change in the system mean for me on a personal level, or what could it mean for the work I do and I think just having that first stage of awareness It would be a really big step. And then from there, perhaps then it will lead to other questions around what is possible. What could happen down the road, even if it’s, you know, six months down the road, what if, and, and having those types of conversations, to start to, to start to think differently about the future and to be open to the need to pivot, and to shift and to not be afraid of change? I think that’s would be a great starting point. Thanks so much. That makes perfect sense. Where can we find more about you? Where can people go and contact you or check out your website or see the incredible work that you do? Oh, thank you. So for more information on the work that myself or my team does, you can go to our website, purple compass, at www dot purple compass.ca. And we have a list of different projects collaborations, as well as services. We recently launched the emergency management futures lab this year. So there’s a lot of new exciting initiatives that were part of and so we would love to hear from you. And if you have any questions, please feel free to reach out. Incredible Donna, thank you so much. I wish you your team and incredible and safe time ahead of purple compass.ca is where you are at your team is at so I’m openly telling anybody who need help in futures and helping understand tomorrow you’re in Toronto, especially contact Donna and team and see where that goes. Right. And thank you so much for being part of this conversation. Let’s chat soon and thank you very much. Thank you so much. Take care Thank you. Hey, friend, this is Ian Khan. If you like what you saw on my video, then please subscribe to my YouTube channel and be inspired every single day with innovative content that keeps you fresh, updated and ready for the future. For more information. Also visit my website at Ian khan.com
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